Printable View
This followed me home. I'm located in Alberta. Repro Stock front and back would likely be a 1st investment.
Can't read Siamese, but I'd say it's non matching...the symbols look different, no?
Any tips or advice to start a redo?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...uCE5dwSh-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...45mym14h-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SR2YC8Ih-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Cxa4whRh-1.jpg
Not really much to do, change the wood and go on. It's about as good as it's going to get. Good luck finding the front boss and bayonet marked to a Siamese...
Not exactly an Atta-boy. Thanks for the encouragement. I somehow thought it would be better received than that....foolish me.
Depending on where it was sporter cut you might be able to save some of your forestock. You can replace a band forward cut with a splice under the band. Otherwise, Prestigious in Canada makes a very nice stock set using several different species of wood. It's worth noting that their butt stock is the "long" size. You will have a hard time finding correctly marked parts, but most serviceable British or Indian parts will make it look complete while you hunt for originals.
why invest more $ into this rifle it is what it is. Finding the parts needed for a rebuild is like looking for the fairy dust on the top shelf along side the chooks teeth. Having a Siam marked action is better than no Siam.
Yes i do have a Siam rifle and bayonet.
When these show up, they are usually ridden hard and put away wet.
Very nice score! The Siamese contract rifles are a unique find, when you CAN find them.
I have only seen three in my lifetime. The first one I had ever seen was at a gunshow in 1994, and I quickly bought it with no haggling. It is a 1990's import, and like yours, has a mis-matched but correct bolt. Having only seen three, I'm not terribly versed on these rifles, but I believe the only Siamese-number marked parts are the bolt, the receiver, and the barrel. My rifle has no serial under the rear sight bar, and the nosecap is un-numbered as well. The other two I have seen were exactly the same (with very dark, oil soaked, timber). A quick glance at Skennertons LE book (page 192) states the nosecap boss' were numbered in siamese. No mention was made of the rear sight. As I said, my rifle and the other two did not have numbered nose-caps. But three rifles is a very small statistical pool, so this is by no means definitive.
Dont know if you noticed, but your rear sight bed is still calibrated for Mk 6 ammunition. I have attached a few pics of my enfield, and for comparisons. An SMLE Mk III calibrated for Mk 7 is pictured above my siamese SMLE. Note the difference in sight-bed profiles.
Good luck with your rifle, and great find!
Thanks for the help. LE and Mausers have such a variety...often times one gets bad advice because it is out of a members niche. Some good points you have forwarded...this gives me something to work on.Quote:
Originally Posted by smle addict
Thank you very much
Regards
BG
The serials dont match.
Knocks/Knoxs 1678
Barrel 1738
The best i can do from The Broad Arrow by Skennerton.
As i said before putting money into this action will not increase its value as a collector piece. If usable shoot it. The rifle completed will always be a Bitzer.
Hey Bindi, I'm seeing 1627 on both barrel/receiver, although the numbers on the receiver look to have more surface wear and may have partially obliterated from years of hard use. At least to me, they appear to match...
"Sometimes a fellow has to do what they think is right"...said every Bubba everywhere.:nono:
It's a neat rifle...I'll think hard about a repro stock set. Didn't think I'd won the lottery.
This one is in decent shape...maybe just freshen it up.
Because it's neat. Good enough reason, thanks folks
you maybe right. As i said the best i could do. With what i can see.
Sometimes it ain't about the value afterword. Got a Bubba'd Springfield Krag that fits me like nothing else...still cool. No Safe Queens at my house.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindi2
There was only 10K SIAM rifles made so they are rather rare. As said by others ridden hard put away wet so how many are left. There is a value in there as there are no spare parts except stripping a rifle to make one better one. If you just want a shooter why invest more money into rebuilding it to Military specs.
Rifles that look like they did are fun shooters. You also don't need to worry as much about damage and breakage on a non matching gun.
I usually do a basic cost analysis. I consider restoration options before I purchase a sporter. I am consistently able to do a shooter part together for around $350. I can get a complete Ishapore DP rifle for $200-300, and most important parts are serviceable. These parts can be purchased individually from various sources, but with increased shipping cost. The forestocks require careful bedding. If the donor wood is definitely not British made, and looks bad I strip with chemical and stain reddish brown. I finish with tung oil. If I pay around $100 for the sporter, I will break even when I sell, and even if I don't, I can shoot 500 rds and it will still be worth about the same when I go to sell.
Using new wood is more expensive and puts me over the breaking even point.
I concur, but sometimes I'll put lipstick on a pig just because. I rarely sell such units... my kids can fight over them when I pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by BVZ24
But sporters are fun...like thrice divorced women. You can't be the 1st...likely won't be the last...still fun. Probably more fun than collectable units... never take them into the bush on a rainy day. Heavens no!
I `d say go for it if you like. It will look better and you can still take it out without worrying about it.
I own two of these. One matching and one with miss matched, but with Siamese bolt.
Both have unnumbered rear sights and nose-pieces. Midbands are unmarked as well.
I have seen a couple more at gun shows, (Last one in Brandon last December) they also had unnumbered parts.
You will want to find a Butt stock with an unmarked brass disk.
Take a look at the Knowledge Library, page four United Kingdom. There is an large pictorial of one there.
We have quite a few of them here in New Zealand and they regularly turn up for sale at auctions (including bayonets) which have a Steel rather than leather scabbardQuote:
Originally Posted by Bindi2
Those scabbards were made in country to replace the rotted leather scabbards, weren't they? I haven't seen one in the real here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omark
Update... got a DP No. 3 on the way...will strip it for parts. Hoping it is in decent shape of course.
Extract of a long, old post from Peter Laidler :Quote:
Originally Posted by BGunther
During the 60’s and 70’s there was a constant need for No4 DP rifles, not only for cadet Forces but Parachute training too where the actual carrying of a rifle was more important than what the weapon was for. The reason for the attrition in this case was quite understandable. So a small but continuous rolling programme of ‘DP-ing’ was undertaken. Naturally many ZF/BER No4’s plus otherwise serviceable rifles were put into the programme plus a healthy dollop of L1A1 rifles too. Not only were these worn out rifles put into the pot, but we later learned, several thousand extensively fire damaged No4, L1A1 rifles and Bren guns that had been involved in a massive fire. These were aesthetically cleaned down, rebuilt to DP standard and profusely marked JUST so that there could be no doubt about their status. Oh, they looked very nice but what had gone on under the surface was a matter of conjecture. Would YOU fire one? I’ve been an Armourer for a couple of years and while I or your local gunsmith could examine one and give it a bright clean bill of health, would YOU trust it. NO, I wouldn’t either!
Let me give you another example too. NO dates here of course but ‘recently’ several hundred assorted weapons were recovered from a fire ravaged/damaged ship, sunk in low water (and later towed out to sea and scuttled). These were all quickly earmarked for scrap and eventually side tracked for DP/Training use. Like the other example, these were also cleaned, and refurbished, painted and ‘restored’ to aesthetically ‘serviceable’ condition. Oh, they looked good but within a couple of years, these had started to rust from under the welds, seams and joints.
And before I forget, let me remind you of something else too, JUST in case you’re tempted to buy one to use as spare parts. This is what the Armourers bible says. ‘……..it will be assembled as far as possible with components which are below the standard required for a service weapon’. And another thing you ought to remember. There were NO gauging limits for DP rifles. Mmmmmmm, food for thought there!
That’s about it. In my very limited experience as an Armourer and having overseen some of these DP programmes, I can tell you with certainty that they were all profusely marked DP so that their status was unambiguous. Agreed, some might be taken straight from stocks, but the rest ……………
Ignoring stripped screw heads, and an occasional stripped thread, I have yet to find an Indian DP non firing small part that's any less usable for recreation grade use than some of the 120 year old originals. I wouldn't use the firing pins or bolts, but usually a sporter has those. I suppose springs could break as well, especially the trigger flatspring, but you probably have that in your sporter, too.
The wood can be cracked and damaged however, but more often than not it's repairable with degreasing and targeted application of epoxy. The draws and bedding need to be fit to your action, but this would be a must even for new and British original stocks.
A majority of the parts will be stamped D.P. too, and that would stand out compared on a rifle made with takeoff parts. At least around here, the D.P. parts sell for 25-50% less than take off parts. Your average gawker at the range will not notice the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVZ24
Even DP furniture was out of specification (warped, soaked in oil etc etc) and as one of the most expensive parts had to be checked and certified as unservicable by the Inspectorate of small arms before it could be declared DP
Any furniture that could be made usable was made usable - scrap furniture went to DP rifles.
Things like screws etc that were servicable COULD be used on DP rifles, but not any servicable Furniture, Barrels, Bodies or Bolts (the costly bits)
Instructions to armourers :