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Gentlemen the endless search continues. This is an Underwood carbine receiver 140k serial, Underwood barrel 3-43 dated, M2 stock, Korean War sights & trigger guard, 1 surplus magazine, no bayonet lug oiler sling or accessories. I haven't seen it yet so no comment on barrel condition but am looking at it tomorrow afternoon. Seller is firm on a $1000 usd sale price. Is this mixmaster worth that kind of money? Comments welcome. Thanks
Yes! And if not import marked could be a bargain! Barrel looks dark, trigger housing looks plum colored, refinished somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfoneguy
Yep! What Wayne said. :thup: - Bob
Nice looking clean carbine. I third the motion.
For a $1000? Take it and run.....
So the Underwood will be mine tomorrow. I saw it today but couldn't bring it home as the seller is working tonight and was in a rush. There is some ridiculously light import stamp on the bottom of the barrel that I just plain can not read. The plum color trigger group is Inland, the bolt is round, the op rod is the later cupped type. All the bolt parts are Underwood as strange as that sounds so they might have been directly changed over? Serial is 1.4 mil not 140k like I was told. Barrel is 3-43 Underwood and the bore and muzzle crown are excellent. The magazine is Underwood marked. There are no markings on the stock, however there is no evidence of sanding on it at all. I'll post more pictures once I get it home tomorrow.
These days, any good condition carbine that is fully functional is worth that amount. A small import mark does bring down the value, but not that much any more. Even if the barrel band is a cut off type 3, it won't hurt the value very much as they are easy to replace and the bands are cheap. It probably isn't a prime candidate for restoration, but for that kind of money, you can't go wrong. The stock is an M2 stock. There is a good chance that it is a Springfield stock. Until you take the action out of the stock or at least remove the handguard, you won't be able to see the marking. It would be on the top of the stock on the left side almost up at the nose of the stock. Very often that is the only marking on a Springfield replacement M2 stock.
This will be my first carbine. I'm not looking for a higrade collector piece just more of a shooter which this should fill the role of perfectly and without guilt. Prehaps in time the collector grades will appeal to me but this will do as a first.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimb16
Thanks for the heads up on the stock I can't wait to find what's hiding under there. The seller was told this was part of a lot given to an Eastern European country whose name begins with a B but that's all he remembers. That is where it got the strange coloring it now wears. It almost reminds me of a Russian capture Mauser.
The purple color has been attributed to the different chemical mix that they used to repark/blue the trigger housings. It is actually fairly common of housings that were refinished in European counties. It is often seen in Bavarian carbines.
Yes, we had some turn purple too. Point was they had been refinished and you could see from that color.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimb16
So the carbine is home and apart these are the pics I have so far. It's in excellent condition with an outstanding bore. As a shooter which is what I wanted for a first carbine it should be excellent.
The first two shots are the location and a close up of the import mark. No way that was filed off ! Next it seems to be an Underwood round bolt? Underneath very clean and nice appearance and oddly colored. Barrel band doesn't seem to be cut down but I don't know. Muzzle crown is nice with no cleanup on it. Op rod and it's markings. Sights and their markings. Overall a nice condition gun. A couple of bore and chamber shots. I'll post more later.
The front band does look like a "cut down" to me - inner piece extends a bit? I think the import mark is Arlington Ordnance. The Op Slide is an Inland. The bolt is a later Underwood replacement - that's the reason for the all Underwood internal pieces. Underwood produced a lot of those bolts and they're still seen for sale at times. - Bob
Bob would these bolts be completely assembled replacements that were just dropped in or were they shipped stripped and the parts transferred over?Quote:
Originally Posted by USGI
I'm not noticing what you're referring to on the band. Would that be on the swivel or blank side?
He is referring to the front edge of the inner band at the top of the barrel on the band. It extends out just a tiny bit beyond the outer band. On real type 2 bands the inner band face is very slightly recessed under the outer band edge. About the bolt: those bolts were usually packaged as complete bolts and were just drop in. Note: I said usually. I have seen them as stripped bolts too. Without disassembly, it would be hard to tell which you have. BUT, for purposes of a shooter carbine, it is a perfectly good bolt. It is a very typical post WWII rebuild. There is NOTHING wrong with that. It is part of the history of the carbine and should be considered to be "collectable" as it is. Not many of us would consider it for restoration. We would keep it as is and use it for shooting and competition. I have a couple like that in my collection, including import marked ones. (also Arlington Imports)
The later round bolts (yours) had a hole about midway along on the bottom and came with the late type extractor, ejector, and firing pin. If the parts in your bolt are the earlier designs, then they may have been changed over. I have a new .U. round bolt that I bought as a bare bolt in green colored wrap 17 years ago at a gun show. I think it was originally complete and someone removed the parts and wrapped it back up. I've never seen any evidence that Underwood packed bare post war bolts in boxes for shipping, but they may have. I do have some pics I found in 2011 of their boxed complete bolts.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfoneguy
Attachment 132828Attachment 132827Attachment 132826Attachment 132825
I've never changed a barrel band, but have heard R&R on some front sights can be a real challenge. Original (Bayonet) Type 3 bands can be reasonably priced, but original Type 1 and Type 2 bands can run hundreds of dollars.
Now, I'm curious if you already had a bolt tool on hand or did you "pull it off" without one? :thup: - Bob
No sir no bolt tool yet. The seller is a professional gunsmith and had pics in his phone of when he had it completely apart. It's kind of hard to fudge the color of this thing if taking pictures of any other bolt. He's a retired Marine and a long time friend of my friend so he had no reason to lie to me especially not for a $1000 carbine.Quote:
Originally Posted by USGI
So I finally got around to pictures of the stock, handguard, trigger group and magazine and that should cover this carbine. The seller included the sling and oiler as a gift, originally he wasn't going to. I'm heading to the range tomorrow and will post some target pics if they're not embarrassing.
First off handguard, no markings at all. Stock, no markings at all however the M2 fire selector slot is plainly visible. Somewhat typical of type 5 M2 pot belly stocks from what I've read. Buttplate, anyone care to guess the manufacturer? The plum colored Inland trigger group showing the M2 magazine latch. Last of all an original GI Underwood magazine
Any input is welcomed and expected boys.
Might be an NPM buttplate like the ones shown in this link They can be a bit puzzling! - Bob
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=78376
Is there finish loss on the top of the left lug of your bolt ?
I ask after seeing your bottom view of receiver picture increased, it shows what appears to be filing where the bolts left lug would ride / rotate. Burrs are a issue to look for here since the bolts left lug rotation if it binds can lead to a broken right bolt lug. It's possible it had some burrs that were filed or sanded to smooth the area. Look and feel this area over closely. A piece of worn / oiled emery cloth works well to smooth the inside of the ledge out. Clean out all shavings and be sure to lightly grease both inside tracks that your bolt lugs ride in. Currently yours shows scars that extend outward, best they would run length wise with the rail.
Zoom in:
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....7&d=1693421347
Yes Charlie there is some degree of finish wear but nothing out of the ordinary. In fact what's there is really in line with my 1955 Garand and M1A (purchased new 1986). Here is another receiver picture from a slightly different angle. As you can see the marks are circular and are in fact an end mill from when the receiver was manufactured 80 years ago. From the dead on shot only showing that small triangle of the surface it looks infinitely worse than it actually is. However I appreciate your concern, thank you. BTW that surface holds grease excellently and the action is both slick and smooth.Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
I apologize for the delay responding, I've been out of town and couldn't respond with the appropriate photos.
That's the most important part. A smooth rotation. I can see now that the left locking shoulder is in great shape also You'd be surprised how many 'nice' carbines have damage there from bolts binding while rotating, often resulting in a cracked right lug. Don't ask how I know. Enjoy, it's a nice looking carbine for the money you paid.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfoneguy
Cheers :beerchug:
Possibly Greek or Italian issue and rebuilt in a European workshop? I have an Italian issue carbine with Century Arms import mark on the underside of the barrel. I've also seen the small Arlington Ordnance import mark present on a couple of others.
That's a really nice carbine. Underwood made top quality carbines, their barrels are
outstanding, given a choice, the free issue barrel users would have chosen an Underwood barrel every time. You also have the latest models of slide and bolt which is a real bonus.
That is the kind of shooter that I would want, important parts, barrel and receiver of the best quality and all of the latest improvement parts. Plus that shows well, you will make money on that gun.
Burrs were a constant battle with production and there were a lot of workers just removing these sharp troublesome snags.