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I received these photos of a LE that I presume to be No 1 Mk III. I don't have access to any other markings as yet.
I would appreciate more information so I can give the owner good advice. It is ex SADF of course.
Just a wild guess.
5.62 is the metric size for the .22 round I have seen French rounds labelled as "5.6mmm".
(5.62mm - 0.221")
Could it be a 22 training rifle ?
I don't know either, but it looks like a late (?post war?) SA produced barrel on an earlier, possibly commercial, rifle body. Could the 5:62 be the date of rebarrelling?
Definitely in 303.
Rebarreling is a distinc possibility with May 1962 a possible date.
More questions : I was thinking that the "51 in a D" and "62 in a D" were dates - thoughts ?
Makes sense. South African versions of FTR dates perhaps, which would fit with the May '62 rebarrel as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield
From the Broad Arrow second edition the crossed rifles with 'S' and 'A' on top of the Knox form denote: "Rifle factory not specific, 7.62mm No. 4 barrel"
I wondered about dates for the figures within the letter D's, but if they are both read the same way round then the one would have to be 19 not 61, which might make it less likely. Could they be the SA equivalent of examiners' marks, like the D6E of Harry Hardwick on most 4T's, & Canadian acceptance marks set within an oval?
I also wonder about the 57/595...........barrel unique production number with year of manufacture?? And the 5:62 being the date the barrel was actually fitted??
Just thinking out loud....I haven't got a shred of evidence to back me up on any of this!:D
Looks to be South African made Mk 3 Enfield barrel made in 1961. Installed in May of 1962 - 5:62. I had some of these I bought surplus years ago. Nice barrels. Supposedly made by Musgrave.
I bought a couple of dozen of those too, some years ago. Here in the UK Charnwood ordnance had a pile of them, back then. I still have about half a dozen. IIRC the batch mine came from were late 50's production. They were (still are) sealed in cosmoline.
The crossed rifles aren't. Crossed rifle and shovel/spade/something.
At this stage it seems like an SA made no 1 mk III barrel, made in 1951, fitted May 1962 as part of an FTR in SA.
Any other assistance? Should I be satisfied with my deductions?
We imported several batches of these from South Africa. All had the standard South African issue/ownership marks.
They were nearly all Commercial BSA MkIII examples and had a mix of barrels.
Original Matching Barrel
Replacement BSA Barrel
Replacement South African Barrel
There were also several Long Lees fitted with SMLE Barrels & Fore-ends, original bolts & no charger bridge
Thanks guys, sufficient information to overwhelm the owner of said item. The rifle is definitely much older than he is.
You are correct, it appears to be a rifle crossed with a spade? but my comment still is true. I refer you to page 76 (proof markings) of Mr. Skennerton's "The Broad Arrow Mk 2" where he explicitly states "Rifle Factory not Specific 7.62mm No. 4 barrel" as a description of that stamp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daan Kemp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740
Notv everything that Ian Skemmerton has written has stood the test of time, as he freely admits, his information was based on knowledge 'at the time', over the years much more new information has come to light showing that some previous 'knowledge' was incorrect.
That is why he has had several new 'editions' with additonal information printed.
Sapper740
Saw that but the barrel is 303, so I ignored it. Also it didn't look quite the same.
Must be some people around in S.A. yet who know the answers to these questions having been and seen.