Some info

There has been discussion on a few pages I have visited with some of the types saying that the Tiger 1 & Tiger II were ineffective due to their low numbers V's engagements.
This chart I used the Pershing's turret as a target for the 88mm/L56 Tiger 1 main gun and the 88mm/L71 Tiger II main gun.
Even the Tiger I main gun can penetrate the Pershing's turret at considerable range mind you the Tiger would be in range of the Pershing's main gun as well.

Some ppl just cannot take the cold facts that on the Eastern front the kill ratio is some instances was 20/1 in favour of the Tiger (Think Wilbeck quotes this)
One person even said a single M4 75mm armed tank took on a Tiger I and won to which I quoted what Pat Dias said about facing a Tiger I in an M4 alone.

Pat came face to face with Wittmanns Tiger I at 100 yds Villiers Bocage engagement Pat's gunner fired twice both AP's bounced off the Tiger.
Wittmann's Tiger fired once the shot did not bounce off it killed 2 of Pats crew and blew him out of the commanders hatch!

Yes they were few in number but they could be very effective in the A/T role.

Kelly : Well Oddball, what do you think?

Oddball : It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.

Big Joe : Hey look, you just keep them Tigers busy and we'll take care of the rest.

Oddball : The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to LET THEM SHOOT HOLES IN ME!

Crapgame : Hey, Oddball, this is your hour of glory. And you're chickening out!

Oddball : To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Tigers.

Kelly : Nobody's asking you to be a hero.

Oddball : No? Then YOU sit up in that turret baby.

Kelly : No, because you're gonna be up there, baby, and I'll be right outside showing you which way to go.

Oddball : Yeah?

Kelly : Yeah.

Oddball : Crazy... I mean like, so many positive waves... maybe we can't lose, you're on!

Was a great movie "I've been workin' on the railroad........"

It would be interesting to see a penetration chart of the 17 pdr projectile on a Tiger turret.

As requested turrets of the Tiger 1 & 2 facing the 17 Pounder APCBC.

I put in the Panther G's turret for comparison.

The Tiger II must have had a much thicker, or better hardened mantlet than the Tiger !.

Different turret too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

with some of the types saying that the Tiger 1 & Tiger II were ineffective due to their low numbers V's engagements.

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Sounds like some people don't know what they are talking about.

For those that want to know more about the Tiger tank kill zones and the operation of the Tiger check out the following at

German Reenacting Manuals

About 1/2 down the page

The TigerFibel - WW2 German Army Issue

TigerFibel - The Tiger Primer. 92 pages + folded posters about the operation and care of the Tiger tank, translated to English in the original booklet format, but at a slightly larger size to make reading easier (7" H x 8.5" W). This manual was originally printed in full color with cartoonish illustrations - a very risqué manual in its day. It has been reproduced in its beautiful full color with all original illustrations and extra sheets showing the danger zones of different tanks.

Lots of info on the Tiger.

Later 42ocker

Here are my go to's reference books on the Tiger series - Tigers in Combat III gives 315 pages and pics of the workings and crew responsibilities/training/servicing etc.
I found the gunnery for the main gun most interesting it was pretty taxing for the trainee with expectations for % of hits with range, target & moving targets.

Tigers in Combat I & II are around $200/USD ea at present TIC III is around $90 odd USD the others I have not looked at their value.

I've another dozen on East & West deployments, Michael Wittmann's book, Von Rosen, Otto Carius etc though I found Wilbecks book Sledgehammers is a very interesting read.

Here is the 17 PDR APCBC against the Tiger I & II Hulls and the Panther G's Hull

The Tiger II was a very formidable opponent but lacked a good powerful enough engine as it struggled badly moving but as a blockhouse it was a case of bring in the "TIFFIES".

Very, Very Nice Tiger book lot!

I'll be digging my Tiger books out over the next few weeks as I go back to my Armortek 1/6 scale Tiger #131. I'm on a bucket list finish it up kind of a thing. LOL

If you don't mind, I'll post a few pics of my Tiger books over the next few weeks.

John's Tiger manual is a great read if you want to know how to do. Of course, with only one Tiger 1 out there I don't think that we really need to know the details on how to Drive, how to sight and where to shoot, etc..

Enjoy Life

Later 42rocker