Hello,
I was wondering if anyone has any engineering drawings for the SMLE Wire Breakers, the type that fit P'03 and P'07 bayonets.
I would like to try and 3D model and 3D print one as a mock up.
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Hello,
I was wondering if anyone has any engineering drawings for the SMLE Wire Breakers, the type that fit P'03 and P'07 bayonets.
I would like to try and 3D model and 3D print one as a mock up.
Sorry I do not have drawings, but would just ask if you mean the "WIRE BREAKER" or the "WIRE CUTTER" ?Quote:
Originally Posted by pedro243
The "Wire Breaker" was a simple guide which guided the barbed-wire strand along the bayonet until it was aligned with the muzzle, a round was then fired cutting the barbed-wire.
There were several different makers of the wire breaker offering different designs.
The "Wire Cutter" relied on the bayonet sliding the barbed-wire along its length and aligning the wire with the cutter jaws. Pushing the rifle forward activated the pivot, moving the cutter blade and cut the wire.
Cheers for the reply.
I am looking for the breaker type. The removable kind that fits both the 1903 and 1907 bayonets
I seem to recall that these items were "private purchase"? Or were some issued?
I believe they were issued, but I believe they were simply scrapped from stores due to no need. So they are pretty scarce I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
Pretty awesome, I've never seen these
Have you tried asking the Royal Armouries Museum at Leeds?Quote:
Originally Posted by pedro243
Never heard of these until this thread. Looks like one just popped on up ebay https://www.ebay.ca/itm/355313573374...Bk9SR86qpM-eYw
Hi Tarrantula,Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarrantula
Nice find. This is the wire cutter type. The wire breaker is a little attachment that slides on a bayonet. It is used to guide wire inline with the muzzle so a bullet can be shot and cut the wire. Look them up, they are a simple device
Have you got 'word' ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarrantula
I cannot post it (with the pictures ) as the forum does not accept .Docx format
Featured Bayonet - Wire-breakers
• Back
This is an updated version of the article originally published in the Journal of the Society of American Bayonet Collectors
Ever since the bayonet was ‘invented’, numerous innovations have been attempted over the years to render them more useful by combining functions. Thus 'sword bayonets', 'sawback bayonets', 'flint knappers' and so on.
Perhaps the most exotic and impractical innovation developed during the Great War : the ‘Wire-Breaker’.
During the course of WWI, thousands of barbed wire obstacles were installed by opposing sides to protect against advancing infantry. Penetrating these ideal defensive barricades became a major pre-occupation on the Western Front.
Artillery barrages were used to clear barbed wire entanglements prior to massed infantry assault, but by pock-marking the ground with shell holes, it only compounded the difficulties of advance. Ultimately, the newly developed ‘tank’ proved the ideal solution, able to flatten wire and provide effective cover for troops as they advanced behind them.
The concept of a bayonet mounted wire-breaker was simple enough. As the soldier advanced through fields of barbed wire and machinegun fire towards the enemy trenches, it was supposed he would possess a sufficiently level head, and have enough time to ‘break’ through stands of wire individually. To accomplish this he simply had to slide a strand of wire along the bayonet blade until it came to rest in the notch of his Wire-Breaker. In doing so, it was automatically aligned with the muzzle of the rifle. Theoretically, firing a round would be sufficient to break the strand, allowing him to proceed with his advance.
The illustrated Wire Breaker No 1 was approved on 9th May 1912 the British War Department in anticipation of the needs to come.
Manufactured from sheet steel, the wire-breaker was designed to slide along the bayonet blade until it rested against the crossguard. A built-in spring clip held it in place.
British Imperial forces were likely to find they could either be fixing Pattern 1903 or 1907 bayonets to their SMLE Rifles. The blade width of a P1903 bayonet is 30mm, a P1907 bayonet only 23mm.
To render the Wire Breaker universal to both bayonets, a swiveling wedge was built into the bottom, providing a snug fit against either blade when moved to the appropriate position.
To help the soldier determine the correct position of the wedge during the heat of battle, the numbers ‘3’ and ‘7’ were stamped into the opposite sides of the body and swivel of the Breaker, corresponding to the pattern of bayonet in use. Matching the two numbers meant the Breaker was in the correct position to fit either the P1903 or P1907 bayonet.
Five further patterns were approved, including one to fit the P1913 bayonet, and all were finally declared obsolete in February of 1921.
Lost, destroyed or recycled over the years, these mass produced ‘penny’ items are now extraordinarily hard to find, and highly desirable to the bayonet collector.
The innovation was further developed by the Wilkinson Sword company, incorporating the wire-breaker into the crossguard itself.
The ‘catcher’ resting on the back of the blade swivels upwards to provide sufficient clearance for the bayonet to fit into the scabbard.
The crossguard must have been an extraordinarily difficult casting to make, and prone to catching in clothing and equipment when sheathed. Never adopted by the War Department, it is probable that only a handful were made. I know of only one other outside of my own collection.
Like so many bright ideas borne of the times, it is probable that the inventor of the wire-breaker never actually had to apply his idea in practice. One can only imagine the futility of attempting to break through barbed entanglements using this method whilst under enemy fire.
According to the Ord Board reports, the CUTTER type were worse than useless and only operated if the wire was very tight - which, by definition, barbed wire entanglement wasn't! It was always laid loose and pulled out, as a roll. Mind you, the bullet type weren't a whole lot better against barbed wire entanglements. Not unless you had a LOT of bullets to cut a LOT of wire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I've read that the cutter-types' main problem was that they were designed to work on the British barbed wire, but the German wire was of a thicker strand size, & was hardened
Basically the cutters had no chance of working against the German wire - but would have been useful for any German 'pick ups' when attacking the British lines.
The main manufacturer was 'Pugh' but great numbers were never produced :
C.H.Pugh Ltd, Whitworth Works, Tilton Road, Birmingham
Teleg: Accuracy, Birmingham.
Tel: Victoria 161
Rifle SMLE Mark.III, Cutters, Wire: 5,500 ordered under contract 94/C/1667 dated 11 May 1916 - Completed
Rifle SMLE Mark.III, Cutters, Wire: 39,300 ordered under contract 94/C/1667 dated 11 May 1916 - Completed
Cutters, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark I: 60,000 ordered under contract 94/C/2849 dated 28 August 1916 - Completed
Cutters, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark II: 50,000 ordered under contract 94/C/4625 dated 7 March 1917 - ongoing
Breakers, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark I: 15,000 ordered under contract 94/B/2997 dated 21 October 1917 - Completed
Breakers, Wire, S.A.No.1 Mark I: Continuation ordered under contract 94/B/3486 dated 4 December 1916 - 2,000 per week.
Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.1 Mark I fitted the SMLE and P.'14 rifles,
Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.2 Mark I fitted the Ross Mark III
Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.3 Mark I fitted the Ross Mark IIIB (the British contract model)
Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.1 Mark II fitted the SMLE,
Cutters, Wire, S.A., No.4 Mark I fitted the Pattern '14,
These (No1 MkII & No4 Mk1) were introduced in LoC Para. 18,516 dated January 1917 and differed from the previous patterns in that they pointed forward, had longer horns and were operated by pushing forward against the wire. There was no corresponding pattern for the Ross as it had been withdrawn from front line service by then.
I seem to recall seeing that other nations tried something similar?
France:
https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/...bayonet-m1886/
Copies are awayable around 60 $ in France and UK.
And I forgot Russia:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...wwi-1915748826
And they made in WW2 another for the SMG PPsh.
Andf here are the photos for the PPsh:
Attachment 134648Attachment 134649
And the drawings for a simillar for the PPD:
Attachment 134650