Hi all,
So, new year, new gun project. Just doing a little research, is the gas system, i.e the gas tube, the same length as the much later M4?
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Hi all,
So, new year, new gun project. Just doing a little research, is the gas system, i.e the gas tube, the same length as the much later M4?
I am not 100% certain, but the gas tube was originally on the ten inch barrel on the XM177e1, barrel was extended to 11 1/2 inches, but the gas tube and front sight base
still remained at the original location. There might be some schematic drawings on the internet.
Many thanks Robert, I'm taking a deep dive into early AR variants with a project in mind, albeit a UK 'legally limited' one, much appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
Will it be .22WMR John, so as to at least make it function more like an original? :)
So this one will have a kit like a CMMG or some sort to function? The gas for the shorties was all the same until the advent of the REAL shorties. An XM177 will have the same handguards as the CAR15 unless you're building the really early one with the undecided right/left triangular handguards. Gas tube is the same. Usually we blind the gas port in the sight off and use a pin about an inch long to hold the front handguard ring in place. I'm thinking you have to be using a barrel with no gas port?Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Finding a magazine for the 22 WRM cartridge should not be that difficult as both Ruger and Marlin example s could be found -
I did make a set of triangular hand guards years ago and liked them
photo from "The Black Rifle "Attachment 134862
My attempt at an XM177E2. Pined and welted extension and yes, I have installed the proper grip after finding a good one. Grenade is inert.
Here's what I have: The lower is a 40 year old SGW 'Stop sign" with a very low serial number.
Cheers Jim, it's going to be chambered in .22 Win Mag. I'm thinking of adding a faux gas tube just to give it correct look.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Cheers Jim, my rifle will chambered in Win Mag, I m thinking of fitting a faux gas tube, just to get the right look.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Figured that...the .22 cals don't need gas anyway, as they blowback.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
There was a pistol submachine gun in 22 WMR with a 30 rd magazine manufactured in Argentinia called the EDDA
Nice grouping I think you one upped me on the accessories at least. Is that an SOG beret? What model Woodsman's pal is that? Unusual handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740
I have a substantial Vietnam War Advisor/Leg/Airborne/SOG/MAAG/Viet Minh/LLDB/CIDG/Cong/NVA/Khmer Serei collection from my 5th SF reenactment days. You have a good eye to pick out the odd shaped handle on the Woodsman's pal, it was damaged at some point in its career and a large piece snapped off. The beret is a repop 5th SF. The PRC 25 still works and I was lucky to get four 257477BA battery adapters from PRC68.com while he was still making them so I can run my PRC 25's on 10 D cells.Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY
The early ones were leather...we still had those with wood handles on issue when I had Reconnaissance Pl in the 3rd Bn in '89/'90. I swiped one and had a leather scabbard made as the canvas is pretty feeble. It's long gone to someone that needed it much more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740
I have a couple (one pristine). Looks to be a useful tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Those look nice. Mine had wood too I think. It was new out of our supply system and no one knew what it was. It stayed in stores while the "Ontario" machetes went out. I remember also sharpening the long edge right out to the tip.Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY
Woodsman's pal still has replacement leather disks.
Hi Mr Clarke. how are you getting on with the XM177E2 build? I too am more interested in old school AR15 / M16 variants and I am looking for someone in the UK who can build a similar style AR15 / M4 carbine in 22lr. Can you recommend anybody?
Hi John,
As per my pm mate, I would personally avoid a certain AR dealer in the 'North West', not a great experience there a few years back.
I personally think the AR builder of choice is Rob from Guncraft, for parts and builds, I've only ever heard good things about Rob and his build quality is absolutely first class, I had the pleasure of trying one of his builds chambered in .30 Blackout at my local range and it was lovely...
Hi John,
Thanks, I will check out Guncraft and let you know how I get on.
I would second John's recommendation. I've only used Rob for parts so far, a really helpful guy.
It's taken a while, here's my XM177E2 build, using an NDS upper on a Brownells retro lower.Quote:
Originally Posted by desperatedan
A mix of original and repro parts, original parts being handguards and pistol grip, plus buffer.
The bolt group is one of the excellent Guncraft examples, a lovely piece of engineering and uses Blackdog 15 Rd magazines.
The rifle was put together by Dean Harmes here in the UK a few years back, painted and made as close as possible to represent an E2.
Considering the 12" barrel, it's rather accurate, printing cloverleaf groups at 25 yards and 2" groups at 100 yards.
Oddly likes CCC maxi mag varmit, very reliably,
but hates CCI fmj! Constant jams and failure to feed.
Great fun to shoot, it's as close to centerfire semi automatic as we can get and fits in nicely with my other milsurps.
The scope is a rather nice Brownells retro, excellent little scope....
Very interesting, looks good too.
Cheers Jim, it's great fun to shoot too.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
The recoil impetus of the heavy bolt group is similar to the mild recoil of 5.56mm.
Really nice build of the XM177E2 and quite accurate too. Interesting sling.
I don't think the Winchester magnum conversion is very popular in the US, cost being the main reason, both for the parts
and cartridges but excellent for your shooting. Maybe try and locate some other brands of cartridges to test out.
Very expensive ammo here too but I'll bet the FMJ ammo or HP would be effective in use. Lots of power considering what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
Cheers Robert, it's a great build. I need to try different makes of ammo, the CCI varmit is impressively accurate I have to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
Not the cheapest to feed, bit I've a really nice Tippmann M4-22 for 'cheap' .22lr shooting. The XM has to be used in moderation...
---------- Post added at 01:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 AM ----------
I certainly wouldn't want to get hit by winmag Jim, it's got a surprising amount of punch for such a small round, especially HP.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I've noticed it's pretty much unaffected by wind out to 100 yards.
It's printing 2" inch groups and that's with a railway track switch leaver milspec trigger.
A lighter trigger and I would think you would pull the goup in by half an inch.
I had an Erma M-1 replica in 22 WMR back in 78-79 even back then the Mag ammo was very expensive I bought a 10 shot mag for it as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
But had to hand it in and a 12G SKB semi shotgun when our Govt banned semi auto's.
SF A Team members usually used simple paracord as a sling tied to the front sight post and the sling bracket on the buttstock, especially during their "Over the Fence" missions. They wanted to have as little metal on their person as possible as any metallic "ting" in the jungle could bring unwanted attention. They went so far as to ruck up with their full load out and jump up and down while their fellow troopies listened for any noise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Just a bit of light razor stone to clean those two mating surfaces. Don't do much or you lose the hardness completely. You don't need anything special, just a touch to clean them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Cheers Jim, I'll probably just try lighter springs at some point.
To be fair, you don't buy a rifle like this to be a tack driver, but the stiff trigger is the limiting factor.
Certainly a 12" barrel appears to be no apparent limitation to its accuracy potential.
The stiff trigger or hard trigger pull have to go on nice projects and a better trigger will improve your shooting.
Years ago i rebarreled a Remington rolling block rifle to 22 rim fire, that I found in my fathers basement. I
made my own trigger and sear and got away from that nine pound trigger. I wanted a half inch group at
50 yards and got it !
Three years ago I had a CMP Model 1903 low number/ bad bore barreled action ($100 shipped to your door) and had had a quality made
22 rim fire liner installed with M2 bolt. Rather than stoning down the trigger parts. i just removed one coil from the sear spring.
Really nice trigger pull but would not do this on a center fire.
Hi Robert, I will put lighter trigger springs in at some point. One thing about AR's, they are a movable feast of accessories!Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
That said, this rifle has been built to be as close as possible ( in UK terms) like an E2, so I don't want to wonder too far from Dean's excellent efforts regarding this project he put so much effort into.
John, a quick q.
Is the barrel 12" including the flash hider or 12" without?
I'm thinking if one had a dummy F/H then the barrel within could be a bit longer here in the UK.
Nice rifle!
Evening Kev, 12" without. The FE screws off, as per the original.Quote:
Originally Posted by desperatedan
I spent a few hours shooting groups this afternoon, keeping an eye on the gathering thunder stops that thankfully rolled past my local range....
I was managing to shoot half inch groups of 5 rounds at 25 yards, resting on my gun case.
A single failure to cleanly extract in a box of 50 rounds CCI Maxi Mag Varmit, happy with that..
They certainly need more regular cleaning though, the powder leaving 'burnt ball' residue on the bolt group and breech face. If I was putting a few hundred rounds downrange in one sitting, I would clean it after 100, or the residue will likely start to cause an increase in failures.
Great fun to shoot, highly recommend....