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I was flipping through some Vietnam War photographs, mostly looking at M-14, and I happened across this picture of a young man holding what looks to be an M1 Carbine that's been cut down. I always wonder about the story behind these pictures. Hmmm.. my dad had that exact style bowie
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Well, if you need to do some shootin' the M14 is sure the one to do it. The carbines being cut down isn't unusual, you even saw examples of them captured from the NVA and Cong. The Bowie looks like a Western example of the Raider bowie. The original Collins model was basically a cut down machete with rather thin stock for a proper bowie knife. During WW2 Western, Kinsfolk & Case made versions. Don't know much about the Case or Kinsfolk versions, but the later Western W49 had the proper blade thickness & became a bit of a classic blade, having been popular with soldiers in Vietnam & produced until Western went under. I'm not sure how many manufacturers there were.
Here's some more info... WWll V-44 Kinfolks Fighting USMC Pilot Survival Knife - EDGED WEAPONS - U.S. Militaria Forum
I guess I should have looked for my Dads after he died. I remember seeing it in his bedroom in in the early 70's, with his KA-BAR. Thanks for the info JimQuote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
At least one SF 'A' Team member, John Stryker "Tilt" Meyer carried a cut down M2 as a 'break contact' weapon. He had a custom holster made for it and when they encountered dinks in the jungle he'd pull out his M2 'pistol', do a mag dump, throw a frag and start dropping toe poppers as they beat 6. Some of the chopper pilots, seeing what a handy little weapon his M2 pistol was made their own as they felt naked in the seat of the helicopter. They wanted something with a little more firepower than their revolver or pistol.
I have also seen a few photos of the M60 m/g where the barrel was shortenedAttachment 135255Attachment 135256
Those chaps RCS look like MACSOG which explains their firepower requirements, however I did also see that they went out with VC weapons as well to confuse them (the VC) into thinking they were in a blue on blue contact!
My brother inlaw a VN vet who passed away in 2022 said you never forget the sound of an AK being wracked or the sound of them firing.
Pic of him in the back of a truck whilst as he said on his "Asian Holiday".
Here's a pic for you Cinders of what I believe is the second ST Idaho which had to be rebuilt after the first strike team Idaho disappeared and was never heard from again. The trooper on the left is holding an AK and a cut down M79 grenade launcher. The trooper on the right wearing the custom made "Operator's vest" is the famous Lynne Black, I believe with an XM148 grenade launcher. For many of the "Over the fence" missions into Laos and Cambodia SF troopers went 'sterile' with CISO made equipment, Indig rucksacks and quite often with Swedish K guns, a 9mm SMG. This was done to give the U.S. government plausible deniability if the A team members were captured or killed.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
Also there was the Australian field mod of the SLR during Viet Nam. The SLR barrel was cut back to the front sight and modified to fire full auto. Sometimes the
L2A1 thirty round magazine was used plus other attachments. Called the "the bitch"
Jim, did you ever pick up one of the Converted Auto U.S. Rifle M14's when they were Unrestricted and selling for cheap in Canada? I bought an H&R for $550 in the Eighties and shot it in many competitions and even took it hunting upon occasion. We had a 10" square gong at 200 yards and shooting offhand I could whack that gong all day long, never missing. Later, I put a 3X9 Redfield on it and entered some long range events, but never placed. I looked for an ART scope for it for years but never found one in my price range. Best battle rifle ever!Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I had a couple over time and one of the originals, which was a TRW serial 434343. I had a low number SA... Last I had was one of the Norincos that had the hardened parts so it was a good example. I liked them as much as our FNs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740
I can't even imagine cutting a pig barrel down, she what I carried when I was in the SEABEES.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
I carried one for two months in the Australian jungle and had no problems, cutting it down wouldn't have made any difference to me...Quote:
Originally Posted by usabaker
I was thinking the muzzle blast would be freeking LOUD, not about the weight of the M60. At 26.6 pounds (unloaded) I feel the same Jim, I don't know what difference hacking off the barrel would make.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Probably like a 37mm anti tank gun...Quote:
Originally Posted by usabaker
LOL... at a 600 RPM fire rate, I have bad tinnitus from the M60 and the heavy equipment I worked on. I would more than likely be deaf if I had had a cut-down barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I believe John Plaster carried a cut down pig in Vietnam. John Plaster was a three tour SOG veteran and told some of the most riveting stories about his exploits with RT New Mexico. In any event, whether it was him or one of the many SF Troopers I've read about, lightness and especially handiness in the weapons carried was paramount. Time and time again the SF troopers survived a firefight because they brought more firepower into play and quicker than the enemy, hence the variety of cut-down weapons they carried.
I would expect the noise wouldn't influence the operator that much, with everything else happening. The enemy should be impressed with the noise hitting them just after the bullets, make them look for cover.
Only when you can't hear anything after. Its a odd feeling. Now days the US military provides good hearing protection. In the 70's you got foamies at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daan Kemp
The trouble with cutting barrels down is that, as we found out with MANY scientific (and not so scientific....) trials and tests at Shrivenham under Lt Col Toomeys eagle eye, was that the standard barrel gave the optimum/best results every time. I never saw any L2 versions with cut down barrels in Malaya or SVN with Australians. But as I have explained in simple language elsewhere several times, the closer the cut down barrel gets to the gas port, the LESS gas is available to operate the action. Because the action can only take place after the bullet has PASSED the gas port and the gas is diverted to do its job.... Unlocking, extracting, ejecting, cocking etc etc. But as soon as the bullet has LEFT the barrel, all these operations have to be achiever by sheer momentum or inertia as discovered by 'apple-on-the-head' man Newton.
SLR's failed to function quite quickly, as did L4 Brens and L7 GPMG's. We had these guns with shorter and shorted barrels. As someone also said, the shorter the barrel, the more violent the muzzle blast.
I accept that the shorties look good in a picture sent home for the folks but in reality, they were like a mickey mouse watch. They LOOKED good but not so good but not so good for reliable time telling.
Just my views, having been there and participated in the theory and practice.
Arnold wasn't the first to put a feed chute on a machine gun. SOG members, ever searching for more useful and reliable firepower came up with the most impressive M60 modification—dubbed the “Death Machine”. China Lake, Calif., Naval Weapons Center technicians put a 500-round drum fitted inside the gunner’s rucksack, connected to the Pig with a 5-ft., aircraft-type articulated feed belt. Total weight including the gun and ammunition was just short of 90 lbs., requiring a stout man to carry it. It was best suited to raids and was apparently carried on the Son Tay raid by Tony Dodge of RT Illinois.
I found carrying more than two belts on my body was overweight...500 rds is heavy. It would behoove you to fire more just to make it manageable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740