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I live in Florida and collect mil surp rifles.
Could any one in the know, tell me how I will be affected regarding buying and selling to improve my collection.
They seem very hung up on making a “profit”.
EG. I buy a mil surp rifle 20 years ago for $50 and sell it today for $300???
Thanks.
The BATF&E takes a dim view of people getting around the more stringent regulations to be a dealer as opposed to being a collector. Having said that, C&R licensees are allowed to sell firearms acquired under their C&R, ostensibly to provide funds to acquire other firearms or to take a different direction as interests change. You are allowed to sell fireams at the prevailing market, even if it means you sold it for more than you paid for it. What would raise a red flag with the BATF&E is a constant and ongoing buying and selling curio and relic firearms. I don't know what level of activity would trip their alarm bells but the average collector tends to hold onto their purchases for years or even decades which makes it almost a dead cert that it will be sold at a "profit".
I don't think they did anything new. Obama came out with this when he was President, and I don't even think they changed the wording. All they are doing is changing the perception of what they are going to enforce. Will it stand up in court? It isn't even a law so this current Supreme Court isn't likely going to enforce it, but can you afford the hassle of lower courts, having your collection confiscated, damaged.
They claim to have closed the gun show and internet loopholes which have never existed, again, a perception issue.
Private sales are the only thing left to control, but people buy and sell things for profit all the time so it's legally hard to make firearms it's own category where this is forbidden or regulated. They are one of the few things which tend to go up in value so it you sell it after owning it a few years, you'll make a profit.
What happened when Obama did it is all the guns disappeared from the flea markets, at least the guys that had tables of them. They have slowly reappeared over the years but not to the point they used to be. These fellows were often dealers in all but the license, and they were investigated in some instances and shut down. I go to an antique flea market pretty often and last week there was one guy selling three rifles and they were definitely modern. I watched him sell a guy an AK type for $800.00, no questions, the entire transaction took about 30 seconds. To be honest, I was shocked, and it made even me uncomfortable. In PA, you at least have the obligation to be confident you are not selling to someone that shouldn't possess a firearm. That is extremely vague, but you at least get the guy's name and address and look at his driver's license.
This transaction was something like this: "Oh, that's a ........, I had one a while back and sold it and wish I hadn't, how much?" "$800.00." "Cool, I'll take it" and he had a huge wad of $100 bills in his pocket handed them over and took the rifle.
First red flag is you never just pay a guy the asking price at a flea market. Like I said, made me uncomfortable.
I'm playing a wait and see game right now. I don't often sell anything anyway so it isn't likely to come up but I will be very careful if it does.
As it was explained to me with my C&R, I have to hold something I purchase with it for at least a year and can then sell it if I find a better example of that piece or a better addition to the collection. I'm currently waiting to complete an auction with an Inland M1 that is a much better example than the mix master Inland I currently possess. If I obtain it, I will sell the original Inland since I will no longer need it. Since I bought it right at the start of covid, I'm pretty sure I can sell it for enough to cover the cost of the new one and just note the sale in my records book.
Thanks for the reply’s.
Take the C and R out of the conversation.
What about Gunbroker since there is always an FFL involved?
What about Floridaguntrader where you meet face to face. Website online?
Thanks
There is no time limit on how long or how short you own a firearm acquired with an 03 FFL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Singer B
Very true, it was a recommendation from some other C&R holders to help avoid the appearance of using your C&R for profiting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740
They keep shifting the goal posts. The definitions are ambiguous enough that it doesn't take much of a tin foil hat to realize an over zealous agent or US Attorney could charge almost anyone who has makes an occasional sale by claiming they were engaged in the business. Profit is not important, they have previously allowed as one could "lose money" and still be in the "business." Being a "poor businessman" is no defense. The most insidious threat is that no matter how weak their case may be, even a successful defense is likely to bankrupt the "target" with legal fees.
Seems you have your woes as well.
Our new FA Act is in the mix master due to be introduced around december 2024 we are fighting the good fight with 22000 signatures saying it is unworkable and an unjust burden on licensed firearm owners whilst the crims do as they please.
Somethings of note ~ restricted to 5 recreational f/a's for hunting, restricted to 5 competition target shooting rifles - a hunting rifle cannot be used on a rifle range for target shooting and vice versa a target rifle cannot be used for hunting (Which was in play anyway as they are club supported) it's restricting the comp guns that is the issue.
Farmers letters are being eradicated and they will run on a web based program that the farmers put your name into and you can only shoot on that property say you said a weekend shoot the police would come back and say ok Sat/Sun only, that type stuff AFAIK.
2 yearly physc tests, police are not subjected to the same requirement even though we had that Sydney police officer murder those 2 chaps with his service glock! (Jilted lover syndrome)
The thickness of the safes increased to 8mm.
Also when you go through this you'll have to pay to have what rifles you've managed to keep so that's round $380 for 1 rifle of you can do up to 5 for that price.
Also co-licensed firearms are going to be abolished so my wife is co licensed for mine, there is plenty more like no owning stocks, barrels, extractors, bolt heads etc.
But the biggest kicker in the new FA Act is they have inserted the word "Thing" which means just about whatever they construe it to be so they are in the throws of renaming West AU "Little Russia".
Its all about vote grabbing the Police have misled the public with scaremongering tactics one instance was a news televised shoot with a 50 cal weapon there was big problems with the whole lying fiasco,
The rifle range in question was not gazetted for that caliber, the fall out template was inadequate for that rifle, shooting at a hard target (Our range laws forbid hard targets like steel & bricks etc), CASA (Civil Aviation State Authority) had to suspend civilian air traffic in that area dur to the possibility of a ricochet.
They tried to portray that these weapons were all over the state a were a risk to the public my nephew who is in the AFP said there were 24 licensed in our state with the Police owning 21 of them.
Labor hold the balance of power in the upper & lower houses so can railroad this new Act through so are only going through the motions to show they followed due process there is so much more in there they are not telling us its 400+ pages of B/S, we are trying to stop it but in reality it's a foregone conclusion.
It makes a mockery of my fathers 3 years o/seas WWII service in the Pacific along with the 0000's of other Australian service men & women who went to war for our freedoms which is a shame.
They have started in also on 4x4 driving vehicles and declaring allot of our southern beaches conservation zones with no recreational fishing to occur they did it to our beach here in Capel.
Gotta win lotto so we can flee this state and go to somewhere where the FA laws are reasonable, it's just a sh*te show here now
Folks, we are headed into political territory. Let's keep it clear of that. Thanks!
Bob
Sorry for the burst Bob but I feel sharing how different bills that are being passed and enforced should perhaps be shared, what is happening to us here is orchestrated by the Police dept licensing branch not the parliamentarians it's about law not political views but what changes are affecting our sports and collections.
Sure as eggs other parts of the world may be looking at what is happening here Jim has already said to me that Canada looks closely at us as well and Canada aint that far from you'se guys a darn sight closer than Western Australia.
I'll keep this post apolitical. I was very happy to be able to leave Canada and move to Texas when the opportunity arose since none of the political parties could be trusted to respect the gun owning traditions of our Canadian forbearers. I lost two great uncles in the Great War who in 1915 when they shipped over to Ol' Blighty were most likely issued Ross MkIII rifles initially and then SMLEs later. My father served in WWII in the RCN as did my Texas wife's grandfather (there's a story or two there!). It was very important to me to be able to collect any and all weapons that any of our families could have carried in battle. Despite increasingly stringent restrictions against autoloaders in Canada and elsewhere I always knew that even the most vehement anti-gun nut would leave the venerable old Lee Enfield alone. Well, I was wrong.
What the uninvolved people should be asking instead of why we need such things is why do others want all of us unarmed.
They'll have to find out the hard way.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
They duped the public!
The Police Minister used the TRG firing a 50 cal sniper rifle filmed by the Channel Seven News Crew as public scare mongering.
This aired on the news under the guise that there was this type of weapon was out there in the general public owned by civilians saying how far it could hit a target and how destructive it was also it was too dangerous to be in the hands of civilians.
So the sh*te hit the fan over the news item featuring them firing that 50 cal here is why AFAIK;
That particular range was not gazetted (Legal) for that rifle caliber most state owned ranges are only up to 8mm. (Ours is Commonwealth owned (ARMY) but we are still restricted to 8mm)
The fall out template was to small for the caliber used.
They shot at bricks and cinderblock's which is illegal on our ranges we are forbidden to have any type of hard targets like steel or brick/concrete etc.
The demonstration affected civilian air traffic which had to be diverted from above the area incase of a wayward round ricochet going skyward after hitting the hard target.
I also heard they had inadequate personnel stationed around the perimeter in case of the public being in the vicinity.
They also put on the news a map full of nice little dots of where every licensed firearm was in the Perth metro area any savvy criminal would have saved that map which gave them a grocery store to shop in as it showed exactly where the firearms are, they took the map down but it would have been to late anyway.
:dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
For some insane reason the thought of an armed populace is more terrifying to some people than the thought of armed criminals.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
A couple of municipalities in the US released information on where gun owners lived. I never heard any adverse results from it. Just a lot of complaints.
Thing is Aragorn ppl are less likely to try and burgle a house in the USA due to the fact they may contract a fatal dose of lead poisoning, we here do not have your laws regarding home invasions or robberies.
Case in point ~ Recently in Australia 3 thugs smashed their way into a house attacking the elderly man with an axe nearly severing one of his hands.
The old tiger fought back grabbing a knife and killing one of the assailants with it whilst the other cronies fled.
It was heard or mentioned the police may be charging the old man with unlawful killing. (Such are our stupid laws protecting criminals)
I'll be joining you in two or three years, as soon as my last kid graduates from University. Peoples Republic of Kalifornia it wearing on me hard and its not just the gun laws its everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740
We love our Governor, Greg Abbott who has kept his promise to "level the playing field" by taking away the advantage criminals have by passing several sensible new laws over the last few years such as:Quote:
Originally Posted by usabaker
The Castle Doctrine has been extended to "anywhere you have the legal right to be.", not just your home.
The legal bar to using lethal force in self-defence is lowered after dark.
Companies cannot ban employees from bringing and leaving legally owned firearms in their vehicles on company property.
You will not be punished for accidentally hitting protestors in the roadway.
We now have Constitutional Carry.
Brass knuckles, daggers, tasers, and pepper spray are legal to carry.
There are enhanced penalties for attacking Senior citizens.
We like to put murderers to death.
Well, I saw a bunch of rifles for sale at a flea market today. No handguns which would require a transfer no matter what but he had a dozen rifles, all older but no antiques. This is a guy I would classify as a dealer as he was pretty much just selling military type items.
Maybe you chaps can clarify if what he says about the AR-15 rule is on the money.
No More! - YouTube
When I left Canada in 2001 I had several 'Prohibited' weapons that I was not allowed to transport, i.e. remove from my property. There was no law forcing me to leave them in the safe and upon occasion I fondled them and cleaned and oiled them. Friends of mine who lived out in the Fraser valley and beyond regularly shot their 'Prohibited' firearms on their farms which was perfectly legal. One older friend had a live MG42 that he fired upon occasion. Hopefully Jim will jump in here and tell us if things have changed in the SPRofC. Next: California Bill SB 960 if passed would allow alien residents of the United states who are authorized to work in the U.S. to become Law Enforcement Officers. Currently, very few of the Illegals that have entered meet that criteria and further down the road, would have meet the requirements of the Police department they apply to. Being fully fluent in English would be mandatory, I assume. I see HUGE problems with American citizens submitting to non-American Law Enforcement Officers. I know I wouldn't.
No, that's still in place. People are still largely unaware that there are people owning machine guns in Canada, they wring their hands about my owning a Ruger mini 14... They'd tell you there are NO machine guns around. Now we have many, many types not allowed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper740