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I'm redoing a Remington 03 sporter to be used as a deer rifle for my son. I'd like to cut and crown the barrel to make the gun a little more managable in the woods. In PA deer woods where we hunt the range is seldom over 100 yds. There is the potential for 150-200 but probably >5%.
I would like to go to 20" or 22". Has anyone had experience? Any thoughts?
Any help appreciated.
Bob D
If you are hunting in close cover, the velocity loss would not be a factor. Typically you would lose about 50 fps per inch of barrel removed. What you probably will notice is an increase in muzzle blast as the barrel gets progressibely shorter, to the point of being very uncomfortable without hearing protection.
20 or 22 in. would be just fine for your purposes.
HTH,
Emri
I just completed such a rifle with an 18" barrel. My aim was to build a great heavy brush rifle of very light weight, clip fed for quick loading, for short, quick shots which eliminated a scope in my mind.
The barrel length is 18", but from the receiver ring is only 17 1/2", receiver and chamber area glass bedded. The stock had lightening holes drilled into the butt, and I installed a Timney trigger, William's peep sight on the rear receiver bridge, and a dayglow front bead in a Williams ramp. I used the original military safety, so when I threw it up to my shoulder I would instantly see if the safety is still on (missed the biggest buck of my life due to an "ON" safety) as the safety sticks straight up and blocks the peep line of sight. It is not an 03, but a slightly larger caliber (7.65 Arg). I added a button release for the clip. Fully loaded it weighs 5.87 lbs.
My take on the completed rifle:
1. Muzzle blast is very loud, but not painful, or even noticeable in the heat of the shot.
2. The recoil is about that of an 06 (rifle weighs <6 lbs)
3. The rifle is perfect for what it was intended to be.
4. Accuracy is excellent, with most groups at 100 yards being 1 1/2" to 2" with my new glasses.
5. Carrying the rifle in thick brush is a dream come true. You can hold it by the trigger and the muzzle is 6" off the ground when held straight down.
My advice is to cut the barrel to minimum length, ignore the muzzle blast, and have the rifle you want. Minimize weight and length - you will never reget it. When you start compromising, you might as well go down a buy a Win 94, or find a wife with one buttock.
Jim
why not trade the barrel you have for one thats cut down already.??
i have a few nice 4 groove barrels that have been cut down, that id be happy to trade you, and do the barrel swap..save the ones not butchered, and use the ones already done..
I wholehearted agree with Chuck. Trade for a shorter barrel and save the original.
Jim
Trading barrels would only help some other collector and not the original poster. Cut and crowned barrel $30-50. Swapping barrels and rechambering would cost all the money from selling the longer barrel.
And that is the central idea. To help another collector.:super:Quote:
Originally Posted by ralfus
Jim
swapping barrels and rechambering???
if you missed it , i offered to do the swap, as well..no chambering would be needed.
isnt this hobby about saving these weapons, and not destroying them??
i dont know any real gunsmith with the right tools that would cut and crown for 50.00.
the board min, for gunsmith machine work is 85.00. no real machine shop would touch a small job like that and likely wouldnt have a clue as to how to crown it right.
they would have to make a special cutter to crown, and that would add more money.
ask any machine shop what they charge an hour for machine work.
likely 100.00 an hour, plus 1 hour min, set up time.
any real gunsmiths will have a min, charge, plus a setup charge. and the turnaround time would be close to 6 mos, or more.
if they would work on an 03, as most wont even touch them.
I have one 03 which had barrel cut to 18 inches and turned down in diameter significantly.
Also have 06s with 20, 22, and 24 inch barrels, and frankly cannot tell the difference in performance between any of them. Sure, chronograph shows some difference, perhaps 20 fps per inch, but not one iota of difference for practical purposes.
I am getting to an age where carrying a heavy rifle is no fun anymore.
My "big" gun is now a Remington model 7 in .350 Rem mag, 20 inch barrel
my "little" gun is a custom .257 Ackley, with a 21 inch barrel, the smallest contour Douglas makes.
Both guns are light and handy, and the muzzle blast is not even noticed.
My point, cut the barrel to the length you wish, you will not be sorry.
I expected to get flamed a little. The collector part of you guys automatically assumed Bug had a unaltered, collectible barrel on his sporter. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. The majority of "sporterized" Springfields that I have seen have had unsuitable barrels for restorations. Recut muzzles or previously shortened, diameters turned for banded front sights, markings and lathe marks turned or buffed off, holes drilled and tapped, dovetails cut, etc. I would love to see an original barrel get saved if thats the case but not when the owner would have to spend more or go through more hassles to accomplish it. The last two times I personally saw 1903's with bolt swaps they did not pass the headspace check. That would be another factor to avoid if he did a barrel swap. Bug can also just call Brownells and buy a piloted cutting and crowning kit for under $70. Chop a few barrels and resell the kit to get most of his money back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckindenver
some flaws in your posts,,your forgot to add the cost of return shipping.
also, all but one list a min. fee. and i bet they have one, they just dont advertise it.
another lists a machine shop rate of 90.00 and hour, and 40.00 to cut, then 30.00 to crown.
sounds pretty simple, just chuck it up in a lathe and get er done??
id bet, you bring any 1903 into a shop, or any other WW2 vintage weapon in, and they will likely send it back out the door.
heck, just grab that old hack saw, stick in your good ol bench vise, and cut away..you might get it straight, and it might shoot purrdy good.
really im just joking, and its not a flame. thats not my style, your take on the pricing, time frame and really how its done is a bit behind the times.
as for cutting up a good barrel? heck, really i could care less, it makes all the ones that arent worth all that much more money,
and a great way to to turn a 700.00 rifle into a 200.00 rifle, by spending 100.00,
i can always use a unaltered barrel in my barrel rack, as i get requests for them every day.
and have a few nice cut down barrels that would make great hunting rifle barrels waiting, for a swap.
thought i could help 2 guys out, and maybe make a couple bucks down the road.
with some 100 or so gunsmiths in the frontrange of Co. not one, will work on a 1903 springfield, 1917 Enfield, 91,or 95 Mausers, but they will jump on that M70, M700 or Browning rifle..
i know this, as they call me whn they get one in that needs refinished, repaired, or rebarreled.
most are clueless as to what the serial number ranges are to SHT to DHT ect.
so they just dont work on them.
I have my own machine shop, and anyone that thinks crowning is a simple task has never PROPERLY crowned a barrel. I wouldn't do it for what Chuck charges.
My lathe cost in excess of $5000, and the various tools and devices to make it work cost about 50% of that. My Dumore (sp-1) lathe grinder and attachments alone was $2400 used. I could go on and on, but I think one can get the jist of the expense to set up to do accurate machine work. I can assure you that Chuck's prices are extremely reasonable.
Jim
My all time favorite rifle is an '03 with a 20" Hart barrel and full Manlicher stock. I have killed a bunch of whitetails with it and it will still shoot incredibly well. I use 3031 and 165 gr. Sra Gamekings. The 3031 produces a smaller muzzle flash than others.
i love 3031 but get frustrated with it catching in my powder measure.
try RL22, it works a bit smoother and keeps the flash down as well.
4064 to 4350 are the normal burning rate powders associated with typical 30-06 loadings. They are going to reach peak pressures in about 22 inches of barrel length. 3031 is faster, by far, so the pressure curve is on the downward side as the bullet leaves the muzzle. RL22, on the other hand, is slower than the typical powders used, so it hasn't reached it's peak pressure yet. Going to a heavier bullet will also reduce the muzzle blast, especially if you stay with a faster powder. All these will result in a lower muzzle velocity, but at typical deer hunting ranges in the East, I honestly don't think it will make much difference, where more deer are probably taken with a 30-30 than any other round.
One other thing, Chuck is making you a fair offer, IMHO.
I have been using 4895 and 135 gr SP's (mostly because I happen to have a lot of 4895). I just ignore the muzzle blast when hunting. On the range I use eye protectors.
I once had to trail a wounded deer through our heavy brush/trees/undergrowth complete with every vine and briar that God made. Think of walking through a half-mile of Jingle Gyms. I had a scoped (4x12) 24" bbl sporter that hung up on everything possible. I quickly realized the scope was useless in that stuff. I swore I would build one or two short barrel open-sighted rifles for that type of hunting. It ain't South Texas!
The two rifles I built are a 45-70 bolt action and a 7.65mm 91 Arg Mauser (what I had on hand). I already had a 91 Arg Engineer's carbine, but I wasn't about to start cutting on that one - it still has it's crest. I am very happy with both rifles, but the 45-70 was a compromise, and just isn't as good as the lighter and smaller 7.65 in that stuff.
Jim
i take that back, i looked at my old notes, reloader 15 and 19 are the ones i used.
15 for the 150 grn bullets, and 19 for heavy stuff up to 180 grn. it is{was} cheap, and works well in my powder measure.