Fixed up Bren Mk I

Some pics of an Inglis Bren Mk I that I acquired which was desperately in need of some TLC. It had be torch cut across the receiver and gas assembly at some point, then someone had a go at welding it up, but it wasn't straight and wouldn't take a magazine.

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I cut it up again re-welded, smoothed it out and cold blued to help disguise it. The hand grip had been burnt and a big chunk filled with putty, which I removed and spliced with an appropriate bit of walnut.

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It was certainly one of the more extreme restorations that I've attempted, but I'm pretty happy with the result.

Wow! the other guy must have used an elephant trunk to weld it up pretty bl**dy snotty effort, great recovery bloke.

Yeah, I don't like to criticize as the former owner is probably a collector like the rest of us, just not the world's best welder. Not that I am either, but...

Nice work! Good clean up!

Nice recovery, I've seen a few slop jobs too. You need to have love to do it to some perfection. At least it looks like the original group of scraps stayed together. I've seen a Mk1 gun with a Mk2 gas system welded on... Nice piece now.

Poor double dovetail.
There is a difference in welding trailer hitches & gun stuff.

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Originally Posted by BurtonP

just not the world's best welder.

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It looks like it was initially welded with a "stick rod arc welder". Looking at the welds it looks like too large a diameter welding rods were used combined with too much current for the job in hand. One of the problems with this type of welding is that a relatively large amount of weld slag is produced in the welding process and, if the weld is less than perfect, this welding slag can get partially embedded in the weld, producing a weak, unsightly weld.

I fixed it with an arc welder. Not all welders, people or machines, are the same. :D

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Originally Posted by BurtonP

Not all welders, people or machines, are the same

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I've seen that.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

At least it looks like the original group of scraps stayed together

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Yeah, I was really pleased that the bipod was the early extendable type. FYI it's 1941 dated with serial number 230.

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Originally Posted by BurtonP

I fixed it with an arc welder.

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Would you like to tell us what type of arc welder you used, please? Stick-Rod-Arc, M.I.G. or T.I.G.

Sure thing. It would be what you call a Stick-Rod-Arc. One of the really cheap tiny ones you can buy on Amazon. I learned on the farm as a kid and no amount of crappy surface prep, wrong stick type, etc phases me much. :D
Plus the grinder/ polishing removes all crimes.

Yes I learned to weld as a child too, followed by nearly 40 years in the precision engineering and metalworking industry.

I'm only just getting back into welding and metalworking, and my skills are still mediocre. Gun restorations are improving them though, along with woodworking and problem solving skills.

It looked like there must have been 3/8" of slag-laden ugliness in there before. When you re-cut and re-welded it, did you have to add filler strips to maintain the dimensions?

M

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Originally Posted by MGMike

It looked like there must have been 3/8" of slag-laden ugliness in there before.

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Yes, exactly.

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Originally Posted by MGMike

It looked like there must have been 3/8" of slag-laden ugliness in there before. When you re-cut and re-welded it, did you have to add filler strips to maintain the dimensions?

M

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No, but I probably should have, as the mag well was fractionally too short as a result. I maintained the gap and just filled it with weld. I didn't think to check the length, foolishly assuming that it was correct. Everything else was wrong about the earlier restoration so I've no idea why I trusted that! Even so, I got it far straighter than before. Rather than cutting and welding a second time I trimmed the mag and retaining studs so it would fit. Lesson learned if I ever do anything like it again.

So this was a purely cosmetic "fix", purely for display?

M

MGMike, yes. It was Drill purpose firearm before being cut up. It may have been legal to convert to semi in Canada (I'm not sure) but I certainly wouldn't want to do it with a DP firearm, even if I had those skills (which I don't).

Well, it looks a lot better than before. Good Job.

Later 42rocker

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Originally Posted by BurtonP

It may have been legal to convert to semi in Canada (I'm not sure)

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That time is long since past. As of about 1998 they were prohib. You did the ONLY thing that you could and I think if the RCMP was asked...they'd insist on inspecting it for dewat-ness... I think if you look at the current list of firearms that were last given the death knell, a Bren gun would be there.

I suspected as much. It's DEWATed, as it has no internal moving parts; they're all welded up tight. It's not even cock & click. I'm fine with that.

Mention of DP Brens reminds me that the biggest killer of Mk1 Brens was the inability to get CHS due to worn breech block stops and barrel bearings. And for Mk2's, that and loose gas cylinders caused by worn press-in gas cylinder area. I seem to recall that there were plans afoot during Base workshop repairs, to fit threaded Mk1 and 3 type gas cylinders while converting them to Mk2/1 folding cocking handle spec. I used to see plenty of DP Mk1's but only a few Mk2's. There were some Mk3 DP's but these and the Mk1's and 2's were all later under the new catch-all umbrella of DP Machine gun L54 A1

The real irony of the L54 guns was that as they were not classed as firearms and virtually irreversible, plenty were sold on as inert by plenty of dealers in the early to mid 70's. A large dealer in Plymouth was a big buyer and dealer who disposed of them to whoever wanted one for his Ferret reccy vehicle

I think I have said elsewhere that in the main, the Mk2 Brens were the mainstay of the UK and Canadian forces in Europe while the Mk3's were the backbone of the Infantry in the Far East.

Worn breech block stops was also a problem for the L4 guns too but because of the geometry it was possible to stone the beating surface back to achieve CHS

Peter, I am sorry but I am not following the terminology. What surfaces are you referencing when you write "breech block stops" and "barrel bearings"? And was the inability to achieve CHS within tolerance a matter of too little or too much?

M

Hi MG Mike,

In our terminology, as used in the Armourers workshops, the breech block stope were the beating surfaces on the left and right hand side of the bolt way that stopped the forward movement of the breech block on a what we call a 'dry gun' That is with no ammo. The breech block hits these stops and gradually wears/beats them down. On a live firing gun, the cartridge in the chamber indicates that that's as far as the breech block will go.

The barrel bearing is the ring in the body that the barrel seats firmly against when the barrel nut is tightened down. There was a repair at Base Workshops to bore this area out and fit a new barrel bearing. Worn barrel bearing was one that wouldn't allow a barrel to be fitted tightly even with the No6 (?) barrel nut. The .303 BRen had barrel nut spacers to correct it but, alas, not the L4 guns.

Quite why, nobody really knew!!!!!!! The barrel nut spacers certainly would fix the problem.

As a general rule, taught to us, the spacers could only be used on one of the barrels of the pair. If both barrels needed spacers when the No6 barrel nut was fitted, the gun was ZF. Fitting barrels and breech blocks and CHS was a bit of a nightmare to be honest, especially for those Armourers brought up on the Bren that suddenly found that the same criteria couldn't be used on the newer L4 guns......... that were really just old re-worked Brens!

The same sort of criteria applied to our later L3 Brownings........ which were really our old M1919's internally re-designed by Biffo-the-bear one evening after a drunken party in the woods.................

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

our old M1919's internally re-designed by Biffo-the-bear one evening after a drunken party in the woods.................

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That is correct...

Peter: Thank you for the detailed explanation. But it raises a further question: Why would beaten-down breech block stops in the receiover render the gun functionally unserviceable? When a barrel is installed and a cartridge chambered, the extra space for forward bolt travel would seem immaterial. The bolt is going to halt against the cartridge rim leaving zero headspace or, failing that, against the rear face of the barrel, in which case the stops play no role in the resulting headspace. What am I missing?

M

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Originally Posted by BurtonP

I suspected as much. It's DEWATed, as it has no internal moving parts; they're all welded up tight. It's not even cock & click. I'm fine with that.

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Unless the regulations have changed Canadian Bren DEWATs have to have the following:

1) bolt face drilled out to not hold a firing pin.
2) metal rod welded into the barrel with the weld being of a stronger metal than the barrel so you'd destroy the barrel if you tried to remove it.
3) barrel welded to the receiver.
4) gas tube cut.

The magazine laws also required the Bren magazine to be irreversibly altered to hold no more than 5 rounds. I coud rack the receiver back on my Inglis Mk I DEWAT which I had until 2001 when I moved to Texas.. I ended up selling it as the BATF didn't like the uncut receiver on it. Did the Canadian Feds go back and make everyone who owned a Bren DEWAT weld the action shut sometime after I left?

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Originally Posted by Sapper740

Unless the regulations have changed

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Yes, the firearm is welded to one solid piece. Decide what magazine you want because it'll be welded on. The barrel is usually milled open where it won't show. Solid paperweight.