1941 Johnson Rifle Support

Good Morning,

Just began negotiating on Johnson here in Miami. The rifle is complete and functions correctly. However, it is missing it's rear sight and has been tapped for a scope. I have some questions before moving forward with a potential purchase:

1. What do you believe is a fair price. With a trade, I am looking at $6300 out the door.

2. What would the repair cost to fill the scope holes and restore the finish correctly

3. Sources for a rear sight


Thanks,
Randy

Attachment 136939Attachment 136940

A gunsmith with a wire feed welder can fill the holes but you can never make them completely gone. You can also use filler screws and more or less blend the holes but again they will leave evidence. The roll mark may be damaged too. If you refinish there will be difference most times in color at the repair. Good luck on the rear sight. The money sounds like a rifle that is in pristine shape...not with the noted detractions. But then, I'm not in Miami.

Is your trade part of the $6300 or is it $6300 AND your trade? And what is your trade?

$6300 would be the cash he wants, $4800, and my Second Model Trapdoor (50-70) worth $1500. The gentlemen likes Civil War period weapons. Randy

---------- Post added at 04:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:32 PM ----------

I am not looking to make money on the Johnson. Just want a nice, representative piece that shoots well. Twenty years from now, when my time is short, it might be time to sell. Randy

Check out Vulcan Arms in Maidstone Ontario Canada he does amazing military weapons restorations and I have seen laser applied markings that are beyond belief

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Originally Posted by rescuerandy2

$6300 would be the cash he wants, $4800, and my Second Model Trapdoor (50-70) worth $1500. The gentlemen likes Civil War period weapons. Randy

---------- Post added at 04:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:32 PM ----------

I am not looking to make money on the Johnson. Just want a nice, representative piece that shoots well. Twenty years from now, when my time is short, it might be time to sell. Randy

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Well, judging by the asking prices on Gunbroker, Johnson 1941's have gone waaaay up in value since I sold mine 25 years ago. Yes, I would do the deal.

A nice example recently sold on a local (Indiana) forum for $5k in original shape…it’s hard to see them jump to this price with the receiver modified for a scope.

In the end, if your happy with it, it’s only money. [emoji1303]

As the conversation brings in more information with each post, looks like $5000-$6000 is a fair price for a complete rifle. If my buyer will go down to $4000, this would leave room for the $1500 in repairs and for securing the rear sight. I doubt he will knock off $2300 unless he agrees with your collective assessment and my potential repair and replacement costs.

Thanks all,
Randy

Remember the adage all milsurp collectors live by: you never pay too much, sometimes you pay too soon.

Agreed. Now at age 66 it often is "it's always the right time."

Having to find a Johnson rear sight for a $6300 rifle ? Did I missing something ?

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Originally Posted by RCS

Having to find a Johnson rear sight for a $6300 rifle

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That was what I thought, the sight could cost one $1500 alone. Look for one...I guess you could always put the scope bases back on it.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

That was what I thought, the sight could cost one $1500 alone. Look for one...I guess you could always put the scope bases back on it.

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Jim, I'm amazed at how the prices of 1941's has gone up. I bought one at a HACS show for $375 cdn back before we were chased out of the PNE by the hoplophobes in city hall. Years later when the gun shows moved to the Operating Engineer's Union Hall in Burnaby I bought an "Ivor Johnson" receiver and barrel in the white at an auction held there for $10.00 being the only bidder. It was in a box labelled "Ivor Johnson" and I guess I'm the only one who bothered to look inside. Yes, you guessed right, it was a Johnson 1941 receiver and barrel. I sold both to a collector in the U.S. for $3,000 cdn a quarter of a century ago.

Regards, Derek

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Originally Posted by Sapper740

I bought one at a HACS show for $375 cdn

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I bought a slightly sporterized on from Milarm when they were in the old lumber shop between '89/'93 at $675CDN. It was hanging up with his collectables. I also had one I'd found elsewhere that was cheaper. I think it was missing the bayonet lug and I needed this other one. I also had the bayonet. Later in maybe '96 I sold the one I still had with an M1 carbine, M1 Thompson and got $1500CDN from a local collector for all three.

I agree with Jim that filler screws carefully flush with the surface is a good way and even DIY possible. I doubt that he and others will like the next bit but but Ive had good luck touching the exposed screw surface with Super Blue (cold blueing when the screws are made of the correct steel and then adding Gibbs protectorent that seems to help with color, but also gives me a (false) sense that the finish adhesion and wear is improved. I dont think it can, but it just makes me feel better believing this! I have done this a lot with the many 1903 Springfields with tapped holes in the receiver that have come thru my shop. I wont do it until I am able to do the welding myself.

I have seen some welded tapped holes that look pretty good as well, but in both cases the trick the result with the top of the screw nearly perfectly flush with the substrate surface and no marking of the substrate surface.

The pics appear to show a good correct finish. I religiously avoid re-parkerizing in general, and would NEVER repark simply due to try to mask filled scope mount holes...but that is just me. In my opinion, you would immediately half the value of these somewhat rare rifles.

My M1941 was also missing the rear sight. I would have to dig deep determine where I found it, but there used to be decent 1941 Johnson Rifle rear sights available.
Also typically missing are unaltered front sights and sometimes the bayo lug. I was able to find an authentic front sight and bayo lug on Ebay back then. I had a problem with the tapered pins, but was able to find correct major dia and taper pins and cut them to length.

In my opinion your repair budget could be less than $300 depending upon the current cost of a repro rear sight. There is a listing right now with the bayo lug on GB for $250. I did the same for mine back in 2011. BTW, I just saw an Ebay listing for an original 1941 Johnson bayo and sheath for $300-$450. They used to go for $600 and others on Ebay right now are priced as high as $599-$845. A repro goes for $200. If the one listed for 300-$450 is original Id grab it!

So...price for he rifle...if the only issue is the tapped holes then I might offer $500 less, but Id also be ready to meet his price quick before it is bought by another (based upon current prices I saw today on GB).

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Originally Posted by 1903Collector

Ive had good luck touching the exposed screw surface with Super Blue

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That sounds about right, it's been done. Just can be rubbed off eventually.

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Originally Posted by 1903Collector

I have seen some welded tapped holes that look pretty good as well,

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I've done some that were more than just a little, did a 1/4" hole in a Winchester receiver that actually covered and after blue, disappeared. Lucky that time.

Numrich rear sight, elevation ladder can also be found on that page. Prices are good!

Rear Sight Assembly, Blued, New Factory Original (Elevator Not Included)

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Originally Posted by 1903Collector

Numrich rear sight, elevation ladder can also be found on that page. Prices are good!

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But out of stock, which is typical.

LOL, I guess I was lucky when I ordered mine years ago that they were in stock!

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

You can also use filler screws and more or less blend the holes but again they will leave evidence.

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This is the simplest and cleanest way to go about it. File down the heads, and paper polish the area to blend before parking. If done carefully you can make them pretty well disappear. For example, try to find the cross pin on a 1903 rear sight collar. As Jim says, the only giveaway would be where the holes intersect the roll stamping. Welding would be very hard to not bugger up more of the stamping.