[ATTACH]Attachment 137382[/ATTACH]what is this thing?
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[ATTACH]Attachment 137382[/ATTACH]what is this thing?
Extremely rare & valuable if I'm not mistaken. It isn't really my niche but it looks like one of the Mk3 SMLE's that were converted to MkV configuration.......Hopefully someone else more into these will soon chip in.......
Have you seen any approximate numbers where value is concerned?
Heres another pic.what does the letter T indicate?
Pretty sure they're in the Lee Enfield Story. Not many made I don't think, though the MkV's manufactured as such were produced to the total of 20,000. But if this rifle is what I think it may be, it is rather scarcer as it is a conversion from the MkIII to the MkV pattern. The T is the letter prefix letter of the serial number.
As mentioned above, these variants are not really my field, & so I could be totally wrong about this. Probably best to let someone more knowledgeable than I give their opinion.
Well, well, well. Congratulations on acquiring this scarce member of the Lee-Enfield family, Chainsaw. Other than the poor photos at the top of page 168 of The Lee-Enfield Story and page 188 of The Lee-Enfield, yours is the only other example I have ever seen since acquiring mine in December of 2002. It is nice to know that there are at least two survivors. I was going to refer you to the article I wrote on it that was posted on this very website some years ago, but for some reason unknown to me that article seem to have disappeared. Now I freely admit that I am still the complete Luddite and suffer from CRS, so perhaps it is just my lack of computer skills and diminished mental acuity that prevents me from finding it now. If Badger would be so kind as to pull that article out of the ether from hence it went, then re-post it in the Knowledge Library, I believe the many photos comparing it to a production Mk V, along with the text, might be of some value in answering a few of your questions.
At the time I referred to this particular SMLE model as a true, MK V Trials Rifle to differentiate it from the 20,000-odd standard production rifles that are still mislabeled "Trials Rifles" by so many collectors. Now I'm not about to rewrite that article, but thanks to correspondence since with Paul Breakey, there is one thing I would change if it does resurface. As Paul kindly suggested, "concept rifle", or "development rifle", may actually be a more correct nomenclature to apply to this piece than "Trials Rifle". Note that the example in the photos in Skennerton's works are missing the unique humped safety with rear volley sight arm formed with a bow to clear it, as present on both my example and Chainsaw's. One thing I will repeat for Chainsaw's benefit - Herb Woodend wanted mine for the Pattern Room, as that magnificent collection lacked one.
Cheers,
Terry
Lance Lysiuk dedicated an entire chapter to the No.1 Mk V in his excellent book: "A Collector's View - THE SMLE". The major differences between a MkIII and and MkV are as follows:
Rear sight moved from the barrel to behind the charger bridge with a resulting change in the handguards. Long range Volley sight system removed, striker cocking piece has vertical grooves, additional band at the nose cap, trigger guard swivel lug replaced by wire loop, no hole in the magazine cut-off, modified safety catch, and large head nosecap screw.
Post some good quality pictures of those areas and we can tell you exactly how correct your Mk V is..... if that's what it indeed is.
Regards, Derek
As soon as I can get an approximate value of it,I'll let it be known what I paid for it,lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Hawker
Chainsaw311
There is no approximate value for that rifle. What ever you paid for that extremely rare rifle is the value for you and only you.
To find the value advertise it well pre auction then auction it.
$369 is a steal of a good pickup for you.
For insurance just pick a number because of its rarity.
Trying again for more pics
If there are only 2 known examples you would not be able to replace it for $5000, or $10,000 or ..................
So what is the 'value' ?
Quite a find. Yes, some things are so scarce replacing them is not an option, no matter how deep your pockets! The stuff is just not there to be had......
We had a couple of these rifles at Warminster, one of each 'variation. The Mk3 conversion was costed at 18 shillings and 6 pence to convert the body while a new build body would come in at £1 - one pound and one shilling. There was a bit of a corresponfdence about the cheapest option but the rifles were all old and by many different manufacturers and could standardisation be maintained. The only true way forward was new-build. But something better was already on the drawing boards
Well,I sent a bunch of pics to the rock island auction hoping for possible numbers of these thought to exist and maybe a value.cross ing my fingers they come up with something.
I dont think ria took a very close look at the pictures,they valued it at a normal mk 3 price.Looks like I get to keep searching for info.
Curious how the long range sight is bent, and from the wear was a long time ago.
Sadly Bubba just couldn't resist having a go at sanding the wood, but still rare as hen's teeth.
Congrats on finding it!
Surp,Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
Good eye, surprised you're the first to notice, but the rear volley sight arm isn't actually bent. Being identical to my example, it is actually formed with a bow in it to clear the rather bulbous, but easier to manipulate, locking catch thumbpiece (or "safety" to most of us).
This is the feature that led Paul B. to suggest that this rifle was more likely to be a concept rifle (sights and safety being the concept under consideration), than a trials rifle. As usual, Paul's assessment is probably the correct one, I believe.
Funny sort of after-thought isn't it? Or were they actually trying to make it easier to grasp and raise the long range sight, as well as the safety?Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Hawker
If not you'd wonder why they didn't lengthen the shank of the safety, put L.R. sight arm under the safety rather than over it, and put a slight outward bend on close to the aperture?
I was told over 60 years ago the true price of anything is the second highest price at an auction sale.
Just like you never pay to much, you just buy too soon.
I was watching Ian Mcollum video on the no1mk5 trials rifle,he mentions the mk3's that were converted but says they made a "couple"of them.Do you think its possible they only made two of these rifles?
In looking through Skennertons three books (The British Service Lee, The Lee Enfield Story, and The Lee Enfield), the typical batch size for any trials patterns was approximately 1,000 for troop testing. However, some batches were as few as 50 and as high as 2500.
Your rifle is certainly rare, but I think it a safe bet more than a two were made (but not many). In reading this section, page 187 of Skennertons last book, he makes mention of some Mk III rifles being converted to Mk V pattern. No number is given, citing the process as cost prohibitive.
This is by no means a definitive answer, nor is it even a ballpark guess. I have seen one in a friends collection, yours on this forum, Peter mentions a couple at Warminster, and Terry Hawker owns one. Counting the one in Skennertons works, that makes approximately 6(?).
Warren,Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Having never doubted the wisdom of that old collector's adage, I was overjoyed to discover that I had lived long enough to see the value of a certain rather scarce Australian revolver finally reach what I had paid for it.
Just never expected it to take 30 years!
Good thing inflation is as low as it is. ;)
According to some research from a person at the museum at Leeds,they made 20 of these.Quote:
Originally Posted by smle addict