Old/Original 303B Beveled Case Rims?

I watched a Youtube video where the channel creator explained the "Rim Jam" or "Rim Lock" that happens loading an Enfield. He stated that the reason for present day rim lock is due to the newer 303B SAAMI brass doesn't have bevels on the rims, and are essentially square. These square rims cause the rim lock, where the beveled rims allow the rim that is behind another slide over and rim lock isn't an issue.

I knew there had to be some reason my No.4MK2 would rim lock every time I tried loading the second original patterned staggered stack clip. Heck, it even rimlocks on the standard staggered rounds in the clip. So, what is this bevel? What does it look like? Can someone post comparison photos of new vs old rims?

This really made me question how the Enfields were regarded as such great battle rifles. This rim lock couldn't have been going on back in the great wars, or it would be regarded as the worst rifle in history, and that is not the case. Lol

I've never had rim lock loading with chargers with any make or date of 303 cartridge. From 40 years old military to brand new never fired cases.

You do load chargers two up three down? Tried many other chargers?

You're right, rim lock isn't unknown on the LE rifles but is rare when using chargers that are correctly loaded. Hence its long service life.

Sounds like incorrectly loaded chargers.

Correct, it's poor loading of chargers. There's nothing to do with new V/S old case rims. Most new creators are just doing content to try to milk some money out and don't really know anything.

https://i.postimg.cc/3yXtJCsG/Enfiled-Charger-Clip.jpg

BoTR also did a video showing that if you're the least bit concerned of rimlock, a quick push down then quickly releasing the cartridges in the magazine sorts them out. Bevelled rims on the older cartridges didn't prevent rimlock, they simply reduced the effort required to push one cartridge past another. Recruits were trained to 'smartly' push the bolt home in order to overcome any resistance of the cartridge to chamber.

I've tried that orientation gobs of times and get rim lock mainly on the second clip inserted. I've 50 clips and tried a lot.

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Originally Posted by Gargoyle

I've tried that orientation gobs of times and get rim lock mainly on the second clip inserted. I've 50 clips and tried a lot.

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When I've shot Lee Enfields in a timed stage i loaded my chargers so each successive cartridge's rim was in front of the rim of the cartridge below. In order to avoid inserting the charger upside down I painted one half of my chargers bright yellow. As long as the yellow half was up I was good to go. I wanted to see how the good ol' Lee Enfield would fare against AR15s with all the bell's and whistles so I entered several IPSC competitions with both a SMLE and a No.5. I actually beat some ARs in a few matches but I was never in the money.

Yup, I'm gonna do exactly as you described. Paint them tops yellow and rim in front of rim! Dagum, these guns are fun!

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Originally Posted by Sapper740

When I've shot Lee Enfields in a timed stage i loaded my chargers so each successive cartridge's rim was in front of the rim of the cartridge below. In order to avoid inserting the charger upside down I painted one half of my chargers bright yellow. As long as the yellow half was up I was good to go. I wanted to see how the good ol' Lee Enfield would fare against AR15s with all the bell's and whistles so I entered several IPSC competitions with both a SMLE and a No.5. I actually beat some ARs in a few matches but I was never in the money.

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When the chargers are loaded the proper way it makes no difference which way is up.
Imagine what the soldiers in the trenches would do if they had to paint their ammo chargers.

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Originally Posted by 303carbine

Imagine what the soldiers in the trenches would do

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Exactly, better to do it right and practice.

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Originally Posted by 303carbine

When the chargers are loaded the proper way it makes no difference which way is up.
Imagine what the soldiers in the trenches would do if they had to paint their ammo chargers.

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Yes, well this wasn't in combat. I tried something different to show all the AR shooters with all the bell's and whistles that the Lee Enfield was the slickest bolt action ever made and could almost run with them. When shooting IPSC competitions time is of the essence being one of the big three of the IPSC motto Diligentia Vis Celeritas. One bad charging of the magazine and I would have come in dead last and with this little trick I actually beat a few AR shooters. I'm not afraid to think outside the box.

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Originally Posted by 303carbine

When the chargers are loaded the proper way it makes no difference which way is up.
Imagine what the soldiers in the trenches would do if they had to paint their ammo chargers.

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Yeah, when the gun works with the proper way. When it don’t, you gotta figure **** out.

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Originally Posted by Sapper740

the Lee Enfield was the slickest bolt action ever made

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I get your point, but would choose a different rifle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5ycG87H1b8
Has my vote for the slickest bolt action rifle. Of course this guy is shooting 6.5x55. With a little practice a mosin clip can be made to speed load a standard issue Springfield krag.

Found this one too...just to be that guy ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5khvtcr7Hdk

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Originally Posted by ssgross

Found this one too

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Seems cyber space ate the clip lol !:lol:

I've loaded the chargers both ways staggered and in the one direction had probably 3 rim overs one in a speed shoot just a quick push down and a little nudge up and away again !

A few tips given to me at the time by shooters who had long standings with the Lee Enfield systems;

1. Go through your chargers and sort them into ones that load and strip freely without hangups keep these ones for your competitions ones that are hard to charge and hard to strip into the mag keep them for range practices.

2. When the last round leaves the last charger ever so slightly move your thumb towards the front (This takes practice but is achievable if I can do it you can) it's only a fraction but what your ensuring is your thumb not moving backwards and possibly inducing a rim-lock situation.
If you practice it enough it becomes muscle memory just like training over & over you do it without thought sadly I am way out of practice but still remember it.

Then I developed my own style in speed shooting with bolt cycling at speed this is how I went may not work for you but did for me.

3. When after firing (I used the traditional grip) I released my bottom fingers from the wrist keeping the weapon into my shoulder with sling & pressure from my front hand I would leave my cheek on the butt keeping it there as I lifted the bolt but before I pulled it to the rear to eject the spent case I rolled the rifle on my shoulder to the right an an inclined angle.
Keeping my head still in place without the rifle still looking at the target reef the bolt to the rear ejecting the case then as I started to push the bolt forward roll the rifle back to my cheek as the bolt almost into battery then grip the wrist again as the handle comes down, same cheek weld, same target eyes open all the way and repeat.

I did 25 rounds in a minute with a rim over I had to sort out so that spannered it a bit but with practice you can get them out faster, some use the middle finger on the trigger I know that but my way still has you gripping the wrist in the accepted manner.

Musketry training for the LE emphasised not having to move the head away from the butt when manipulating the bolt. The bolt doesn't move back far enough to hit the face. Keeps eyes on the sights while shooting follow up shots.

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

Seems cyber space ate the clip lol

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Here is the link...video titled "Lee Enfield loses to Krag"
'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5khvtcr7Hdk&t=1s'

Mildly entertaining. More of a Shooter A beat Shooter B. And how hard was it to proofread the reader's copy who said the Enfield was reloaded with a 10-round stripper clip? Both guys were obviously using unfamiliar rifles. And who told Shooter A that you have to load a Krag like that? An experienced guy has all five rounds in his hand and "dumps" them in the capsule mag with as much speed as he can guarantee they all go in.

Both rifles should easily have been 100% hit rates.

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Originally Posted by MAC702

Mildly entertaining. More of a Shooter A beat Shooter B. And how hard was it to proofread the reader's copy who said the Enfield was reloaded with a 10-round stripper clip? Both guys were obviously using unfamiliar rifles. And who told Shooter A that you have to load a Krag like that? An experienced guy has all five rounds in his hand and "dumps" them in the capsule mag with as much speed as he can guarantee they all go in.

Both rifles should easily have been 100% hit rates.

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I found it curious the krag shooter was only 11 seconds slower with the slower reloading. I agree 100% hits at that distance from prone supported positions shouldn't have been too difficult. I disagree on the loading. I've played around plenty with my krags. I find the fastest+consistent way of doing it is is grabbing 1-2 from the belt at at time and tossing them in. I've tried holding 5 in my support hand while shooting. The kind of move and shoot, even with a supported position like they had, still requires 2 hands on the rifle to rapidly get on target - unless you are that skilled at dropping the forend on the bag and miraculously having near perfect sight alignment as soon as you drop behind it a fraction of a second later. I've shot trapdoor offhand with an extra couple cartridges between fingers. Worked out ok I guess, but not a fan. Much more reliable to grab one from the belt. Holding them that way for the Krag makes you drop more than you can load trying to get them back into your hand and/or getting the gate open.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

I disagree on the loading. I've played around plenty with my Krags. ... I've tried holding 5 in my support hand while shooting.

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I didn't mean that. Sorry. Shooting accurately with your hands free is the priority. Then, I open the door and grab 5 rounds and dump one or two at a time into the magazine. But all five are in my hand when I start that part.

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

The bolt doesn't move back far enough to hit the face

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Sadly due to my very distant French heritage leaving my face behind the bolt would have it slam into my beak which I am very fond of even with a good cheek weld after a good number of rounds like I did last Wednesday 45 odd my nose was a bit sore from my thumb.
I get the usual cracks about my nose's size but I just say to those the simple fact is "The air is free":madsmile::lol:

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

1. Go through your chargers and sort them into ones that load and strip freely without hangups keep these ones for your competitions ones that are hard to charge and hard to strip into the mag keep them for range practices.

2. I did 25 rounds in a minute with a rim over I had to sort out so that spannered it a bit but with practice you can get them out faster, some use the middle finger on the trigger I know that but my way still has you gripping the wrist in the accepted manner.

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I took the charger selection one step further: after selection for the attributes you mentioned I then polished the inside of the stripper clip to make charging the magazine as slick as possible. I found using the middle finger as the trigger finger worked best for me.

Sapper740
Keep that up and we may have to induct you into the Enfield users world of shooting. Because you took the trouble to learn how it works.
The Enfield system works and as a battle system very well even for Sunday plinkers .
My best is 9 shots fired 8 pigs on the ground as fast as i could work the bolt. Middle finger on the trigger. The people who trained me did it in both world wars.
Part of the training was done on random disc targets shown at random times as well as fixed time exposures for multiple shots (as many as you could do )

@Cinders. Thumb should be on or close to the bolt not around the grip area of the butt...

Thank you Bindi! Coming from you that is high praise indeed!

I cured the rim locks forever! I scoped my Enfield, I don’t need no more chargers no more! ?