Commercial sporter stocks?

Hi all,
I picked up a couple of No 1 Mk III sporter stocks for a project and was interested to note that one was not a cut down full forestock. It was professionally inlet and did not have normal features like the top handguard clip cutouts and the rear sight protector cutouts. There are no markings on it.

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I had always assumed that commercial companies like Parker Hale reworked cut down original stocks, but I must be wrong. Does anyone know if these stocks were made commercially, or is it just a really good amateur gunsmith's work?

Sile made some of the high-end stocks that P-H used.

Sile, in Italy, makes a lot of stocks. In addition to the Lee Enfield sporter stocks, they also made the stocks for the PH Mauser sporters. They have also made stocks for Savage .22s.

I'm not entirely sure it is a Sile-made stock. It doesn't have the markings that they have.

"Sile" is often found stamped in the stock. Converting service rifles to sporters was quite the industry. There were other businesses making sporter stocks.
I mentioned Sile making Savage .22 stocks. Saw a batch of them at the Savage plant in Lakefield, Ontario. Bubblegum pink for a KMart order. Thousands of them. At the time, Savage could source them cheaper delivered from Italy than from the US.

And of course, Sile made the butts and Colin Moon made the forend for the Lee Enfield Enforcer.

Are the ENVOY butts marked SILE?

Choosing my words carefully, I'm not sure that many Armourers of the L39 and L42 era would agree with the notion that Moon made the L39 and 42 stocks. He certainly did something to them. But whatever it was, it wasn't making them or even making anything good or useful with them, certainly with regards to quality!

Agreed, the L42 was made DOWN to a price and the quality of the woodwork produced probably reflected this. Even new spares inevitably needed patching from the word go........... Just my limited experience of course

I don't think the Envoy butts were made by SILE in Italy. They were made in England as were the butts for the No.8Mk.1. The butts for the Enforcer were made by SILE but I don't think they were marked SILE anywhere. They are completely different.

As far as quality of my piece goes, it is inlet well, but is missing the stock reinforcement bar thingy (whatever it's called) at the rear of the handguard. Not just missing, there's no inlet to affix it either . . . as if it was never intended to be there.
Having seen a ton of cracked stocks there I assume it's a fairly important part.

Were stocks being made at RSAF Enfield in the 60s and 70s(?) when the ENVOYs were produced?

From what I've seen of the PH, Churchill etc. sporters the wood is usually marked SILE, at least on the butts; would have to go and look at some forends to see about those.

That tends to suggest that either SILE was just the cheapest (quite possible in the 50s and 60s) or no one was set up to make stocks in the UK at that time?

If Colin Moon was involved in at least later ENVOY and L42 stocks, I suppose that also supports the theory that by that point at least, there was no one else?

I believe that Enfield had closed dowm their woodwork shop which is why Parker Hale had to but the butts from Sile and the Forends from Colin Moon for the Enforcer.

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

I believe that Enfield had closed dowm their woodwork shop which is why Parker Hale had to but the butts from Sile and the Forends from Colin Moon for the Enforcer.

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No doubt the machinery went somewhere then.

Saw a reference recently to the stocks for the Whittaker Specials being made at a London furniture factory. As in the "Wood Goes to War" documentary, the old-line factories would have had all the equipment to make whatever was required. The only question would be whether it was economic for them or the client to get it set up for a production run.

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Saw a reference recently to the stocks for the Whittaker Specials being made at a London furniture factory.

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In 1916 the SSA woodwork was to be manufactured by the furniture manufacturers Waring & Gillows and Rudders & Payne, both of whom later dropped out of the scheme.

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Saw a reference recently to the stocks for the Whittaker Specials being made at a London furniture factory.

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This was the Goodwood Frame factory in Hackney owned by Victor Toogood; Bert Whittaker was given Victor's name by Peter Moon who was either involved (or running?) Sterling Armaments at the time.
Victor had been making wooden stocks for Sterlings AR180's to give them a more "sporting" look and appeal for the British gun market.
Bert Whittaker originally wanted Mansonia a west African tropical hardwood for his "Special"; Victor suggested Afromosia (African teak) because of its cost and availability, looking at the Whittaker's I have owned over the years it was a good choice!

Foot note:
Bert was a pipe smoker with a habit of tapping out his pipe on the heel of his shoe; Victor had to remonstrate with Bert that was something you didn't do in a factory where the floor was covered in saw dust and wood shavings!

Edited to add,

I have Victor's templates for the stocks in my attic!

No relation to Colin Moon I assume?

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

No relation to Colin Moon I assume?

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None that I'm aware of; and yes I had to double check my research notes when I posted that!