M1 Carbine Stock Question

Hello, I recently acquired a really nice Saginaw s'g' carbine. From what I know (which is not a tremendous amount) most of it is correct. It is however in a stock that I am not familiar with. In the stock well is a S-HB and on the pistol grip is a B the butt plate has what I think is S-S3 which I have never seen anything stamped on a butt plate. Could this be the original stock for the rifle? They appear to have been together for a very long time. Thanks!Attachment 139347Attachment 139346Attachment 139345

jbm,
Your stock has been swapped out. You have a Standard Products stock made by Hillerich & Bradsby Co, makers of the Louisville Slugger baseball bat.
The Buttplate is correct for the Stan Pro stock. S-S3 is a plate made by Shelby Spring Hinge Co for Stan Pro.
Letters like the B often show up after inspections, post issue.

Standard used a Recoil plate marked on the top and some on the inside. Did it come with a Recoil Plate? And if so did you look for a marking inside?
Stan Pro had one of the smallest Crossed Cannons Stamps, often hard to see. Seems about the size of a Dime, look closely from angles for it on the right.

Is it a High wood stock? Feel free to add more pictures of your stock and S'G' action.

More info on stocks can be found in the link below.
The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbine Stocks & Handguards

Thank you for the information, this is what I believe to be the crossed cannon mark on the right side, it is quite small and lightly stamped. I did not see any marking on the recoil plate, which marking would I be looking for?
Attachment 139348

The stock is filthy, it would clean up really nice, the wood is beautiful on it. It was to my understanding that it was brought back in this configuration from the war with a 1911a1 Ithaca.
Attachment 139349Attachment 139350Attachment 139351Attachment 139352

Other parts pictures.
Attachment 139353Attachment 139354Attachment 139355Attachment 139356Attachment 139357

Yes, Looks like a faint Stan Pro CC. Will have to remove Recoil Plate to see marking.
Is that a Stamping on the Left Side of Stock just behind Grip?
Is that a Metal Burr under your Extractor in your Bolt picture? Inspect that and the Rails your Both of your Bolt Lugs ride on **
H in Shield rear Sight came on some S'G', depends on Serial number.... I Need to double check. Need your Serial # and if Receiver has any marking on the left side (below wood line)
Type III S'G' trigger Housing has replaced or possibly a Transferred Underwood straight Hammer. Can see it has a S'G' Trigger.
KV-S'G' Type I Swivel, made by Knape Voight (sp?)

Concerned about the rails the Bolt lugs ride on, especially where the left lug rides in. See the picture and raw metal areas.

It looks nice. I'd really degrease the action and look for Burrs on any of the guide rails. After a Deep cleaning a cotton ball will find Burrs for you.
Curious if that's a Stamp on the left of the stock.

Thank you for your help. Here are some more photos. I can not see a mark on the left side of the stock behind the grip but you will know better than I where one should be. The recoil plate looks to me to be marked with SW? Attachment 139358Attachment 139359Attachment 139360Attachment 139361Attachment 139362Attachment 139363

No stamp just dents.
SW Recoil Plate is made for Stan Pro.
So Stock Metal is all Stan Pro.
Likely original stock was damaged and action placed in this one.
This stock shows use of only having the narrow/early barrel band.

Hand Guard will be marked on the bottom.

P on barrel is Proof fired mark.

Are you sure it says Saginaw S'G' under Rear Sight?
It's in a Split serial number block where some where marked Irwin Pedersen and some Saginaw S' G'
See Table G: The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Serial Numbers

I have double checked it and although it's hard to see, it does read saginaw s'g'

Was worth wishing.
What barrel and is it dated?
Is the front sight marked N? Does it have a number on the outside?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by painter777

Can see it has a S'G' Trigger.

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Or maybe an IP trigger, need to check that marking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by W5USMC

Or maybe an IP trigger, need to check that marking.

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Yea, your right Wayne. To be honest I could barely see the notch.
And I answered while also watching the race.
With that serial number I was hoping to see IP under that sight.

Thx :thup:

Attachment 139369Here is a photo of the barrel marking, it has the flaming bomb and is Underwood 9-43 the front sight looks to have a Z on it. There are no other markings on the front sight that I can see.

jbm, The Z is really a crosswise N for Niedner Rifle Co. - Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by painter777

Are you sure it says Saginaw S'G' under Rear Sight?
It's in a Split serial number block where some where marked Irwin Pedersen and some Saginaw S' G'
See Table G: The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Serial Numbers

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Charlie and Wayne,

My 1.89M S'G' is in that block also. Before when the subject of those carbines came up, the understanding I got from the discussion was that the Saginaw GR receiver marking could also be SG, S'G', or S.G. - is that right? The reason I'm asking is that I was told by the seller (before seeing the gun) about the marking. He told me it was just SG and nothing else. Were any of them marked only with the letters SG? I've always thought that mine is S'G' lightly struck.

Here's a couple pictures. What do you guys think?

Thanks! - Bob

Attachment 139372Attachment 139371

Bob,
Looks like a light ' after the G'
Very much like the 1,823 I have. The one I learned after the fact a young nephew with OCD had traced over the cannons with a ball point pen that had the cap on it after I left the room for a few minutes to answer the door. I had been showing him details about it using the pen as a pointer. It made me sick to my stomach but no way I could get mad about it.
Link:https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=39471

I have 2 others in the 3,2 to 3,5 mil range lightly struck in the same way. I believe the 3,5 has the Sq shoulder.
You'd have the Receiver Type B, variation 1 (rounded shoulder with the locator hole in it). Used early in the first and 2nd serial number blocks. So it's a S'G' made receiver. I'd imagine Doerfner had those stamps working double time and likely getting worn out while under pressure to produce.

Seems I recall you had a 3,2 which probably has the rounded ear/shoulder still. Want to say it was a 8-43 Underwood barrel.

Like, jbm with his 1,76 and 9-43 Underwood barrel. My 1,823 S'G' with 8-43 Underwood barrel. Bob's S'G' 3,2 with 8-43 Underwood barrel and S'G' with I believe a 7 or 8 -43 Underwood barrel.
jbm, Check your shoulder detail on the rear side of your receiver... See pictures in link.

It just shows the scramble S'G' was in picking up the pieces after the shutdown of IP on April 1st 1943. A pile of parts seeing what was useable. Barrel dates seem to indicate both the 1st nd 2nd serial number blocks being worked on at the same time at some period. With S'G' using IP serial numbers that hadn't yet been stamped on IP receivers.
Seems the only way to roughly date a IP or S'G' would be by barrel date if it's the original barrel and IF it's a dated barrel.
IP, SG and S'G' are hard :runaway:

This Link IMO best explains the IP back ground here on Milsurps:
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=29367

Edit to Add:
When S'G' took over the IP plant they used IP marked and serial numbered receivers before they even started to make their own receivers. When they did they started using the IP serial numbers that were not used because of it having been used on a bad receiver. They started to appear in the June 1943 time frame and when S'G' had used all of the IP numbers they then picked up in the serial number blocks where IP had left off.

I pulled it back apart and took a couple more pictures. Could this be a Irwin Pedersen serial number with a Saginaw stamp? I'm really confused about this one.Here are some pictures of the receiver, trigger marking and magazine.

Attachment 139376Attachment 139377Attachment 139378Attachment 139379

No IP were accepted. Their contract was terminated by Ordnance. Saginaw Steering Gear of Saginaw, MI a Div of General Motors was already building Carbines, marking S.G.
They were awarded and took over the IP contract on April 1 1943 in Grand Rapids, Mi. Becoming known as Saginaw Grand Rapids, marking S'G' and took over any useable parts and the Serial numbers that had been assigned to IP. Your Serial number was originally assigned for IP and a very early one at that, but your Receiver was made later on by S'G' after the take over, who used the old IP numbers. The Squared off ear came after the rounded ear. That explains why you have the later 9-43 barrel. It gets really confusing, just know you have a S'G' made in Grand Rapids, Mi. About 1 hour from me.
Your Sear is correct for your S'G'. Rear Adj sight is H in the shield made by Hemphill, which was likely a field upgrade like the Underwood hammer. Both considered upgrades, could have been done in the field or camp depot. That hammer has less trigger pull than the earlier ones. Your IU magazine is GI issue, made by International Silver for Underwood.

IP 1st serial number started with 1,762,520 but most were made out of order.

Curious if you seen the makers letters under your Hand Guard?

Having fun yet? :surrender:

With jbm's serial# I was really expecting to see a "round" ear on that receiver. All I know is the whole IP/S'G' manufacturing saga makes my head spin! :dunno:

I do think Bob's is a lightly stamped S'G'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbm

Here are some pictures of the receiver, trigger marking and magazine.

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jbm that is a picture of the sear marking not the trigger.

This is the marking on the handguard.
Attachment 139380

jbm,
If you looked at the Hand Guards section in the link Wayne attached back in reply #3 you've seen you have a Inland hand guard made by S E Overton.... O I.
It sure matches your stock in color and grain flow nicely.

After you lube it up, let us know how it shoots.
Early S'G' like this are sought after. Hard part is finding a correct stock for them. Rare and Pricey when found. Stamps are often Faked, so beware.
Thanks for sharing it with us :thup: