Anyone have this PH4 rear aperture piece and lenses?

I am attempting to find the physical measurements of the original filters that could be bought as accessories for this eyepiece:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../05/0001-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5/05/002-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5/05/001-1.jpg

Asking because this optician can make lenses to fit that are either simply filters or providing eyesight corrections; just needs the dimensions of the originals and your optometrist's prescription if you want correction or even just a filter.

https://shootingsight.com/?product=custom-lens

Description
Any size single vision round lens from 1/4? to 2? diameter, in 1/4 diopter steps. Opthalmic quality polycarbonate with Anti-Reflective coating. Chamfered edges optional to fit in Knobloch type lens holders. Sphere, or cylinder lenses to correct for astigmatism. Lens powers can match a prescription, or be adjusted to optimize for shooting vision. Tinting is possible, at a slight upcharge.

Please note.. We will need the Sphere size, the Cylinder size and Diameter for your custom lens. We will also need to know whether the lens does or does not need to be changed per your prescription.

Cylindrical lenses for astigmatism need to be oriented based on your prescription. If you order a cylindrical lens, you will need to experiment with the lens orientation in the frame to achieve the correct orientation for you. Polycarbonate is impact resistant, however these lenses are not safety rated for impact, and should never be relied upon to provide eye protection while shooting.

I understand what you're trying to do. I have a pile of PH sights but have never found any of the inserts.

However, if your goal is simply to shoot using the PH sight, GEHMANN makes a whole pile of lenses with variable apertures for target shooting. You can buy them with PH threads, too! Most combinations are less than $200 USD.

Here is one example:

https://www.champchoice.com/mc-optic...olor-filte-570

I have a 530-PH that fits all of my vintage Parker-Hale sights, has magnification as well as adjustable iris:

https://www.champchoice.com/mc-optic...nification-530

If you really really want all the 48 color filters, you'll have to spend twice as much on the 546-MC

https://www.champchoice.com/mc-optic...th-polar-546mc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Enfield-Stuff

I understand what you're trying to do. I have a pile of PH sights but have never found any of the inserts.

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Well, what I'm actually trying to do is try that custom ground lens in that PH eyepiece: total cost $45. But thank you for the links, some of them I've patronized before.

I am too old, too stiff, and too shaky these days to be a threat in any match. I just amuse myself here out in the sticks of Montana where I often have the range to myself, seeing how well I can do at distance with the No. 4 Long Branch. I do use the aperture adjustments in the flat eyepiece that I usually shoot with, and that definitely helps. But seeing as I have this one intended to accept lenses, we have a superb optician who specializes in competitive shooting whether with rifles, handguns, archery, etc, here just a bit south down in Missoula.

I have my annual visit with her and the optometrist who works with her coming up, and she's told me to bring my rifle and sights when I come.

For $45, I'll give it a whirl.

If I want all my excuses removed, I still have my Anschutz 1806 and its rear adjustable sight to humiliate myself with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick

Well, what I'm actually trying to do is try that custom ground lens in that PH eyepiece: total cost $45. But thank you for the links, some of them I've patronized before.

I am too old, too stiff, and too shaky these days to be a threat in any match. I just amuse myself here out in the sticks of Montana where I often have the range to myself, seeing how well I can do at distance with the No. 4 Long Branch. I do use the aperture adjustments in the flat eyepiece that I usually shoot with, and that definitely helps. But seeing as I have this one intended to accept lenses, we have a superb optician who specializes in competitive shooting whether with rifles, handguns, archery, etc, here just a bit south down in Missoula.

I have my annual visit with her and the optometrist who works with her coming up, and she's told me to bring my rifle and sights when I come.

For $45, I'll give it a whirl.

If I want all my excuses removed, I still have my Anschutz 1806 and its rear adjustable sight to humiliate myself with.

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Rather than rely on someone accurately measuring a lens, why not just give the company you plan to use to make the lens, your prescription and the sight and let them make it to fit ?

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

Rather than rely on someone accurately measuring a lens, why not just give the company you plan to use to make the lens, your prescription and the sight and let them make it to fit ?

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A couple of things. First, the optician and optometrist that work together with competitive shooters (and their sights) to provide the best correction possible prescribe glasses; the archery sights they work with have lenses with a diameter of an inch or more. On the other hand, the business at the link above just wants to know what the dimensions of the lens have to be in order to fit and the prescription you specify be ground into the lens.

By messing around with assorted shims, verniers, etc I can probably get close. And alternately the company that grinds the lenses might be agreeable to having the eyepiece sent to them and them mucking about to figure out dimensions.

But easiest of all is if there's a collector out there with some of those filters who can just measure a sample and provide the measurements.

Apparently there used to be an optician that attended Bisley, tested eyes then hen ground lenses for the peep sights.
However, That was a few years ago,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Warren

Apparently there used to be an optician that attended Bisley, tested eyes then hen ground lenses for the peep sights.
However, That was a few years ago,

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I think you are probably referring to Jim Sweet from Australia. He's the person who wrote successive versions of the book "Competitive Rifle Shooting". A lot of enthusiastic rifle shooters wonder where their Sweet's 7.62 bore solvent came from... that's Jim Sweet as well.

https://www.leraa.com/articles/jim-s...ng-optometrist

Yes, he has passed away and I was never anywhere near Bisley nor Australia to meet him at a match where he was doing that for fellow competitors, even if I had been competing back then 60 years ago.

I have a copy of one of the very early editions of his book, where the parts that focus on the rifle portion of target shooting is pretty much exclusively about the No.1, not much about the No. 4 rifle. The final versions 7th(?) has the rifle portions focused on Omarks and various flavors of 7.62.

I would like to get my hands on some edition where his focus switched from the No. 1 to the No. 4, however briefly. Perhaps something in the middle of his editions, something like the 4th edition of that book?

Jim Sweet: Over 400 wins at Open Meetings (including matches)

1976 W.A Queens Prize and Grand Champion
1973 National Queen's No 1 Badge
1971 Vic. Grand Champion (Queen's Tie 1969, 1971, 1977)
1971 Qld. Duncan, 1949 Weinholt (Tie 1958)
1968 Vic. Syme (Tie 1962)
1957 S.A Queens Prize
1957 N.S.W Grand Champion
1948 N.S.W Jamieson (Tie 1949, 1957)
Four Champion of Champion Titles (Militia, .303 and .22 Asscns)
66 King's / Queen's Place Badges (N.S.W , record 1983)
Member (Adjutant) of 1965 Australian team, Empire team, Empire winners.
Selected nine times N.S.W, State team etc, etc

That's J.H. Steward of Bristol https://jhs-eyewear.com/pages/jh-steward-bisley
I seldom come across one of these with the lens still in but I've got one of the coloured filters which is about .411"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mk VII

That's J.H. Steward of Bristol https://jhs-eyewear.com/pages/jh-steward-bisley
I seldom come across one of these with the lens still in but I've got one of the coloured filters which is about .411"

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A bit more background.

J H Steward Limited
Opticians and scientific instrument makers

James Henry Steward (1817–1896) established J.H. Steward in London in 1852. As “Head Optician”. J.H Steward became incorporated as J.H. Steward Limited on 1st February, 1913. The company produced a large range of items for military use and advertised in their catalogues that they produced instruments for ‘Reconnoitring, Sketching, Night Marching, Signally, Gun Laying’. They were well thought of with their work to such a standard that they were opticians to ‘The British & Foreign Governments, the National Rifle Associations of England, India, Canada & the Colonies and the National Artillery Association.

They traded from the following locations:

1856 - 1971 406, The Strand – London W.C. 2

1866 - +/-1893 54, Cornhill – London E.C. 3

1867 - +/-1930 63, St. Paul’s Churchyard – London E.C. 4

1869 - +/-1930 66, The Strand – London W.C. 2

1886 - 1928 457, West Strand – London W.C. 2

1893 - +/-1905 7, Gracechurch Street – London E.C 3

1971 – 1973 Catherine Street – London W.C. 2

(just around the corner from 406, The Strand)

1973 - 1975 154, Church Road, Hove, Sussex

The family business was passed on solely through the male line. In 1971, after selling the head office they moved all the

remaining stock and long serving staff member, George Goble (c. 1916-1975), around the corner to rented premises in Catherine Street. George, a dispensing optician, was now the only member of staff – running the shop but mainly retained to provide a service to long-standing customers and to reduce the stock levels. Then the remaining instrument part of the business finally moved out of London to Hove, Sussex in 1973. In 1975, despite the efforts of the founder’s great-grandson and his wife, the business closed its doors for the last time.


They manufactured a superb eye-piece that fits into PH target sights.

The one I have not only has the 'iris' that allows infinite aperture adjustment but has coloured filters to cope with sunrise / sunset, misty/foggy light etc etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick

I would like to get my hands on some edition where his focus switched from the No. 1 to the No. 4, however briefly. Perhaps something in the middle of his editions, something like the 4th edition of that book?

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I have the 3rd edition if thats any help.

Dated 1948 but seemingly no reference to the No4 rifle.

Stewards at Bisley is generally open for the main meetings only these days; now run by Simon Goldsmith who has recently joined Norville opticians practice in Bristol.
Simon still caters for people wanting prescription eyepieces for early rear sights, or that was what he told me a couple of years ago!

https://www.norville-keynsham.co.uk/simongoldsmith

Is this "Stewards" you mention a successor to J.H. Steward? I thought the family closed that firm down finally in the 1970s?

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Is this "Stewards" you mention a successor to J.H. Steward? I thought the family closed that firm down finally in the 1970s?

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From an earlier post :

James Henry Steward established J H Steward Ltd in 1852. With his first opticians practice located on The Strand, he gained a reputation as a skilled manufacturer of optical, scientific, and nautical instruments. Steward quickly became the primary optician to the Government, the National Rifle Association, and the National Artillery Association. The business remained in the family until 1972 when the founder’s great grandson finally decided to pass on the mantle.

A long-standing employee approached his niece, Elizabeth Goldsmith and her husband Simon, who then took over both the business and a century-old commitment to helping shooters reach their full potential.

J.H. STEWARD (BISLEY) RENAMED
Today we continue to attend National Rifle Association meetings and hold a permanent trading location with eye testing facilities at Bisley Shooting Ground, Brookwood (home to the NRA). See our calendar of shooting meets here. J.H. Steward (Bisley) Ltd now serves shooters from around the world under the new name of JHS Eyewear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mk VII

That's J.H. Steward of Bristol https://jhs-eyewear.com/pages/jh-steward-bisley

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You're probably correct; I remembered reading references to Sweet doing that, but he lived and competed in Australia, a bit of a ways from Bisley. They may be well worth contacting, just for information purposes. Thank you!

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I seldom come across one of these with the lens still in but I've got one of the coloured filters which is about .411"

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That diameter is very helpful; thickness of the filter?

I'm not at home where my rifle and equipment are, but I wonder if the eyepiece screws down to put pressure on and clamp the filter, or whether it is threaded so that it runs out of thread and stops at the point where it is just touching the filter. Tightening the threaded piece down tightly on a lens seems like an invitation to over-tighten and crack or break the lens.

I should be able to get a small tipped 90 degree probe in the opening and feel if there's a gap remaining after the eyepiece is screwed all the way in.

In the references I saw to the filters I never saw any mention of offering diopter lenses. James Sweet as best I know only offered diopter corrective lenses for front sights.

---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------

Hi Alan, that seems to be the most common edition seen on websites and referenced. I think the latest/last one offered for sale (when available for purchase) is the 7th edition. A while ago somebody who has that version mentioned online that the focus has moved on to the more current fullbore rifles, kind of skipping over the No. 4 rifle.

Presumably, somewhere within the 4th to 6th edition, Sweet would have put more focus on the No. 4 in the chapters addressing the rifle itself.

And that is a very cool rear aperture that you showed us pictures of!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

From an earlier post :

James Henry Steward established J H Steward Ltd in 1852. With his first opticians practice located on The Strand, he gained a reputation as a skilled manufacturer of optical, scientific, and nautical instruments. Steward quickly became the primary optician to the Government, the National Rifle Association, and the National Artillery Association. The business remained in the family until 1972 when the founder’s great grandson finally decided to pass on the mantle.

A long-standing employee approached his niece, Elizabeth Goldsmith and her husband Simon, who then took over both the business and a century-old commitment to helping shooters reach their full potential.

J.H. STEWARD (BISLEY) RENAMED
Today we continue to attend National Rifle Association meetings and hold a permanent trading location with eye testing facilities at Bisley Shooting Ground, Brookwood (home to the NRA). See our calendar of shooting meets here. J.H. Steward (Bisley) Ltd now serves shooters from around the world under the new name of JHS Eyewear.

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This would have been the niece of the great-grandson then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

This would have been the niece of the great-grandson then?

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No - the niece of the long standing employee.

A long-standing employee approached his niece, Elizabeth Goldsmith and her husband Simon