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I have fallen in love with the Martini Henry and am just a few short steps away from buying one, the problem is due I purchase one from IMA or do I wait and keep my eye out for a nice one on Gunbroker or Auction Arms?? I know I cant get one from IMA fairly cheap but they are Napelese and I was told that they are not as good, is this true or should I go for the plunge and get one ASAP??!! :sos:
The Nepalese ones are listed differently. (Gahendras)based on a Francotte action.
The rest of the Martini-Henrys are genuine British make..
Pay the special select premium. The rifle will most likely be filthy, but then if you were sitting on a rack for a hundred years, you would be too. They most always have good bores. If you are unhappy with the condition, most likely woodwork, IMA has a very good return policy.
If you get one , go to The Martini-Henry to learn how to take it apart and reassemble. They usually fall apart if you undo enough bits, BUT putting it back together is quite another matter. The instructions are illustrated with very good step by step pics.
If you want to play ZULU, you need a MkIII. (short lever) A MkIII looks like a Mk2 which looks like a Mk1. The Mk4 is different in appearance but works the same way. MkIV's are mostly rebored .40 calibres since the Government figured they didn't need three different cartridges, (.45, .40, .303)
If possible, pick up the tools and the bayonet.
Now the fun starts. Brass is EXPENSIVE, Dies are EXPENSIVE. A 45-70 bullet is NOT going to work as the bores are Larger, so yiou need the Martini Henry bullet mould from RCBS. You should also buy the paperback book on how to paper patch those bullets you cast.
FORGET ABOUT buying loaded ammo from some suppliers. It won't be as good as the stuff you load.
Welcome To Buffalo Arms Co. is an excellent source for supplies. Get their catalog.
One small caveat, on disassembly and reassembly the tiny screw that keeps the cocking indicator in place MUST BE positioned properly. The screw is EASILY snapped off if you get it wrong!!!:yikes:
I got one from IMA a couple of years ago and am pleased with it. It came as clean as a whistle. I have yet to attempt getting the components and dies to reload for it. I should get ambitious and photograph it for all to see. Carl
Who ever told you this does not know beau diddly sqaut about Martini's. THe Martini Henry's offered by IMA are some of the finest Martini's being offered anywhere. Add there customer service policy and you can't go wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotic01
For the new guy, Gunbroker and Auction arms are the absolutely worst place to buy a Martini right now. Most the Martini's offered up on the auction sites are counterfeit and fake. Don't get me wrong, there are some good Martin's offered on the Auction sites, but you are going to have to really know your Martini's to get one.
John has covered just about everything else, and you can trust what he says. I learned a good deal form him and he knows what he is talking about.
Have Always Wanted a Martini Henry rifle. Have not had the good fortune. The sun never sets on the British Empire! Soldiers of the Queen and all that sort of legendary stuff. To hold history in your hands! Best of luck to you! :cheers: ~ ~ :beerchug:~ ~ :rofl:
kaotic01,
I'll back up the advice you just been given because I took it and was pleased with the results. The Enfield 1885 MkII I received from Atlanta Cutlery was in great shape, although the buttstock left something to be desired cosmetically in comparrison to the rest of the rifle.
It's an antique, not a run-of-the-mill milsurp and must be viewed as such. Having said that, my MkII looks better than a lot of wholesale milsurps out there. In my opinion anyway.
They do need a very thorough cleaning to get a centurys worth of petrified crud off of them. Mine cleaned up very nicely with a bright bore and well defined rifling.
Ammunition can be an initial setback costwise, but once armed with cases they can be thumbloaded for shorter range fun.
BTW, IMA draws their stock from AC's warehouse so it doesn't matter who you order from. Experience tells me that AC is a little quicker on delivery times though.
Yup, IMA and Atlanta Cutlery are the same folks, just different locations.
Now a bit more information. There are three versions of the Mk4. A,B, and C.
Only the A version takes the socket bayonet. Due to the different front sight the B and C versions will only acept the blade bayonet, though ALL versions will accept a blade. even the Mk1, Mk2, and Mk3's. If you do order a Mk4 make sure you tell them which version you want with which bayonet.
Save your self some aggrivation and shipping expences. Get it with the bayonet, and get the sling, combo tool oil bottle and muzzle cap. :)
john
I'll second that. The other bits have been as common as rocking horse turds until They bought out the Nepalese cache. Once that's gone the prices will go up again or the bits will become unobtanium.
I just wanted to thank you all for the advice, I am probably going to buy one from either IMA or AC, seeings how IMA is in New Jersey and I am in PA it should not take long to ship here. :super:
Doesn't matter who you order from the gun is coming out of Atalanta.
I know Atlanta is spelled Atlanta. You only have 60 minutes to catch the msitake an fix it...I didn't make it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoubleD
Even with the iddy biddy "V" in the MKI rear sight my MkII came fitted with I can still manage to print sub 4" groups at 100 metres. My Martini is also from the Nepal cache, but mine was ordered through World Wide Arms here in the UK. If I could scrape the pfennigs together I would order a MkIV for comparison. My advice would be to get the rifle now while they're still available and get the reloading bits and bobs afterwards.
I've not tried the unpatched bullets in mine, and yes, patching is fiddly and a pain, but the results look more authentic and still perform well.
I bought a Mk IV 20 years ago. It came with the original sling. I haven't shot it for ages as I now have it as an antique. Mine spent time at Allahabad arsenal and eventually found its way back home.
Regards
Peter.
Thanks a lot you guys. After reading all this stuff I felt compelled to order from AC before all is gone. Now off to Buffalo Arms to feed the thing.
I have bought two from IMA, one full price Mk1 converted to Mk1 MH, it is in excellent condition, beautiful wood (100%), and nearly 90% of the bluing remaining. The bore is perfect and I shot it regularly (home load). I cannot recommend IMA more highly - get a hand selected one!
The other I have just bought is the Francotte pattern MH, made in Nepal, it is quite rusty (barrel pitted alongside the wood), what appears to be a hairline crack in the underside of the barrel, near the muzzle, but it is a project for me to hone my restoration skills - tyhough it will almost cetainly never be a shooter. Take the plunge - now and you will never look back....fortune favours the brave! Good luck, George
I have just received a Francotte from IMA and it came to UK with no problem.
They even threw in an extra stock due to the one on the rifle cracked. nice.
Got it to try my skills at restoring. Before taking the bigger step for a full blown Martini Henry short lever possibly mkII.
Now to the problem I need to find the best way to strip or clean the wood work so I can repair and glue. Is there any hints and tips locked away in websites.
Any help appreciated. Thinking of cutting and glueing and finishing by reshaping maybe.
Will get some pics sorted as well.
No markings I can find except the Nepalese wording on the lever.
Some undecernable stampings on the butt, will check them out as I clean.
What bore where these I cannot find any reference on the paperwork so assumeing they are .450
Anyway any info anyone can throw onto this forum would be welcome.
Paul
Cleaning the woodwork and bringing it back to a good standard without destroying the stamps is not so difficult. i have done this to a number of wood stocks and it looks authentic and works - waterproofed and smooth.
First step remove the woodwork and scrape any grease off. I wouldn't recommend scraping the stock wood around the stamps. The grease may be fairly heavy between the barrel and stock. This was armoury grease and should be removed before shooting.
The next step is to use hot water and a gentle cleaning agent to remove the general wax and oil and grease before starting on the dents and dings.
I use furniture wax cleaner/ stripper as the main agent as it is gentle and emulsifies the wax and grease and sweat of a thousand Gurkhas.
I rub it on by hand and then rinse with boiling water. The water is hot enough to melt the waxes and grease. Working over a basin I then use the hot water and a cruddy old cloth to rub the woodwork with more wax stripper. This rapidly will come off and the stock will start to look very matt and rough. This is good, it is the wood showing through.
I use this stuff on the markings as well, they are stamped into the wood so should not be affected by wax cleaner. However I avoid too much hot water on them.
After a few coats the amount of crap dissolving into the water will drop off. You have now cleaned the wax and oil and grease off it.
For the next stage a steam iron and wet thin cloth is needed. Some people recommend lifting agents such as bicarbonate of soda sprinkled on the wood to remove old stain but I have never needed it. You will want to raise dents and dings at this stage. DO NOT do this on the stamps, they will be harmed. Through the wet cloth gently iron and steam the wood, you will notice the smaller dings disappearing. It wil also draw out some more oil and crap. Continue for an hour or so. It is not going to ruin the history and will give a better finish.
Make sure you do the barrel channel, you will be sealing this as well in the next stage.
Once happy you have got it as far as you can let it dry.
Next day sand it with a sanding block and wet and dry paper. I use 400 grade at this stage. the idea is to sharpen up the edges and smooth the flat bits. Do NOT sand the stamps or sand hard on the edges that abut metal, such as the butt plate or where it fits into the receiver. Sanding here will affect the fit. The top edge should be straight, not wavy, hence use the sanding block.
Change th epaper regularly and DO NOT use an electric sander. This is craftsmanship.
Finish it off with something finer like a 600 grade. Use your fingers on the curved parts.
You should now have a stock that looks more or less one colour and straight. If you have dark stains they are stained because grease or oil has been allowed to soak into it long term and it will be very difficult to remove. At this point you have to decide whether to stain.
The stock is usually Italian walnut so quite dark. You cannot lighten it so you can only go darker. If you want it an even colour you will have to stain, personally I think this is a mistake on a historic rifle as the patina disappears but others would disagree. If you stain you will need a dark wood stain. I use cheap water soluble stain called "Dark stain" - I have no truck with subtle shades.
Two or three coats, allowing to dry between, sponged on. This will give a very dark even look, do not worry as it will lighten up and develop character in the next stage. Make sure you apply it to the barrel channel and under the butt plate.
Let it dry thoroughly somewhere dry but do not heat it or place it above a fire. You want it to achieve the natural moisture content before the next sealing stage so it does not shrink or swell later.
The choice of finish is up to you but I use pure Tung oil. it is a natural oil finish that is tough and waterproof and in keeping with the period but I do not belive it was used on the Martinis. It is also very cheap and easy to apply, just takes a week to complete.
Pure Tung oil is the one to use, not a synthetic or adulterated Tung oil finish, these are doctored to mke them easier and quicker to apply and are not as good. You will not need much and 250ml would do for 10 rifles.
You will need some fine wet and dry paper, steel wool, white spirit and Tung Oil for this next stage. Rub on the Tung oil with the wet and dry in small circular sanding movements. The first coat dilute with 25% white spirit so it will sink in.
Don't use too much Tung oil, just enough to make it look wet.
Some suggest sanding and allowing the sandings to fill the pores of the wood. Fine in theory but this is walnut and you will be sanding a long time and may not achieve what you want.
I spend some time on this stage as it will dictate just how smooth the finish is.
When I have spent 10 minutes on this I would clean it down with my fingers. I want to leave a thin film of Tung oil on it, not a glopping coat as it will not dry.
Hang it up or lean it up and leave 24 hours. I come back after 24 hours and run my hands over it, gently caressing. This will find any damp patches and spread it. Another 24 hours and it should be bone dry.
Do the same again about 6 - 8 times, reducing the amount of sanding. You should now have an even coat and see figuring in the wood, that stain having soaked into some areas of the grain more than others. If you have not stained you will not see much figuring.
The barrel channel and under the butt plate and the area that fits inside the receiver will not need this number of coats but make sure they get 3 coats. Tung Oil is waterproof and will seal the stock only if it is applied all over.
Let it dry thoroughly and then rub lightly with steel wool to give that final even surface.
You are then ready to wax. All manner of recipes are out there but I use a beeswax floor polish from the supermarket. This will protect the oil finish and give better grip. I put on 5 coats, probably does not need it.
You can then reassemble the rifle. A regular wax would be good. If you clean your rifle barel with boiling water keep it off the wood.
If you have large cracks find out why. It may be the metal parts rusting in which case remove them and sand them back down, oil them and refit. The stock bolt is often rusted and is a tight fit already. However if you can get it out in one piece it can be reused.
After steaming and cleaning I would then assess the need for further work. A crack can be glued and pinned back into its original shape. You can use panel pins but make sure you sink them in below the surface. I would use ordinary wood glue, long term it will work better than any modern glue.
If you want to fill the crack after gluing and pinning you could use wood glue and sandings before staining the stock. You will never eradicate it but it would look presentable. It would have to be pretty bad to prevent me from shooting.
I have posted picture of my .22LR conversion. I followed this method on the stock for that rifle and stained it all because the foreend was Grade 2 teak. It came out very well and is coveted by many at the gun club.
Good luck, it can be messy but getting the right wax stripper would make it straightforward.