Telescope, Scout Regt Mk IIs

A question to my fellow optic's collectors/sniper collectors.

I was wondering if there are any manufacturers of the Mk IIs, Scout Regt. Telescope that I have yet to come across yet? So far I have come across and purchased:

B.C. Ltd Co., Broadhurst Clarkson of London
H.C.R & Son Ltd, H.C. Ryland & Son
K.E.C., Kodak Eastman Company
H.B.M. Co., Houghton Butcher Manufacturing Company

I have ranked them from most common, to least as I have observed in my search. Highest s/n I have found for each manfacturer is:

BC-24808, HCR-20336, KEC-22096, and HBM-5291

So am I missing a manufacturer or two of the Scout Regt? Second, for you Aussie's out there, did Australia make any make/model of spotting scope during WWII? I just need to find a pair for my HT's.

Thanks guys

Lance.
I've got pics of 75 different Sct Regt telescopes. From the numbers I have found,
BC & co #28663
HCR #28791
KEC #22096 (which is lower than your highest)
HBM #5467

Also there is another maker, AL Vincent & Co- (a picture of the markings at the bottom of the post)

Ok. Now I also know there was an amount of these made in Australia, by I think A.O.C. (Australian Optical Co)- the people who made our Patt18 scopes for the Lithgow Snipers. I thought I had a pic of one, but cannot find it. If I do, I'll send it on. The standard issue telescope in Australia was the Sct Regt right up untill the early '90's. The majority were from England, some apparently have been noted to bear the D^D marking, but I haven't confirmed this. (I'd imagine only ones that were sent for heavy repair may have been marked- if at all)
I'd just stick any in with your HT's. I'll put a pic below also of one in the Museum here- the description card is readable.
Cheers,
Brad.

Many thanks Brad for the info!

Now to find an example of AL Vincent, the quest is on.

I have yet to pick up a couple of scopes for my HT's as I was hoping to find an Australian made or Australian property marked example. No rush but if anyone finds one or two...............

Of interest on KEC scope's, the "early" example I just picked up, #6020 has a 1943 date on the tube by "KEC". It is the first Scout Regt. of any maker that I have come across dated.

Not at all sure what the Australian Army used most but they still had (and may still have) a lot of WW1 scopes and must have made some more in WW2 probably to expand existing stock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lance

Many thanks Brad for the info!

Now to find an example of AL Vincent, the quest is on.

I have yet to pick up a couple of scopes for my HT's as I was hoping to find an Australian made or Australian property marked example. No rush but if anyone finds one or two...............

Of interest on KEC scope's, the "early" example I just picked up, #6020 has a 1943 date on the tube by "KEC". It is the first Scout Regt. of any maker that I have come across dated.

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Just had a quick flick through some pics, got about three BC scopes dated 1940. The fourth in order of serial numbers is 3833 and it's not dated. One pic below for your reference.

Thanks for showing the AOC scope, Rowdy. (I didn't imagine it) I'll search my hard drive later, but maybe it was a Sig. Mk VI I saw too...

I do not know how I got it, but I have a virtually new Broadhurst and Clarkson scope. This thread got me to admiring it Friday. Clean, clean and cleaner is the best description.

Thanks for reminding me of it.

Has anyone got an original Mk2 without the shutter. That's working on the basis that my old Instrument notes describe the Tele Sct Reg Mk2S as '.....similar to the former but incorporating a sliding shutter in the eye piece'

This leads me to ask, was the original telescope a Mk1 and when it incorporated the shutter mechanism, did it become the Mk 2 with the extra 'S' for shutter

Does anyone need OG lenses for the Mk2S?

I probably sound dumb but what is an OG lens?

Ah, yes! Not dumb at all Bill. That's how we learn........ It's the Instrument technical jargon for the Object Lens. That's the most forward of the lenses in the operating system.......unless you have a prismatic lens ahead of it, as in some of the pattern 18 scopes. The OG lens for the Scout Reg scope is the large lens at the front that always meets the ground first when you drop it ..........................ouch!

This is quite an interesting story in a roundabout way, being so famously associated with the No4T. Why don't you collectors/specialists get together and write up a small paper on the subject? Don't wory if there are many many mistakes. They'll soon be corrected and others will add to the story with their twopence worth and after a year or so, it'll be a good pretty well definitive tome.

Don't forget that the first person to read it immediately knows more than you because he knows ALL that you have written plus the little bit he knew before. But that's how we progress. I think it'd make an interesting read.

My best guess for "OG" would be "optically ground" as these would be manufactured (aka ground) to bend light. Optically neutral lenses would be those that have no light bending properties.

PM sent ref O.G. lenses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Ah, yes! Not dumb at all Bill. That's how we learn........ It's the Instrument technical jargon for the Object Lens. That's the most forward of the lenses in the operating system.......unless you have a prismatic lens ahead of it, as in some of the pattern 18 scopes. The OG lens for the Scout Reg scope is the large lens at the front that always meets the ground first when you drop it ..........................ouch!

This is quite an interesting story in a roundabout way, being so famously associated with the No4T. Why don't you collectors/specialists get together and write up a small paper on the subject? Don't wory if there are many many mistakes. They'll soon be corrected and others will add to the story with their twopence worth and after a year or so, it'll be a good pretty well definitive tome.

Don't forget that the first person to read it immediately knows more than you because he knows ALL that you have written plus the little bit he knew before. But that's how we progress. I think it'd make an interesting read.

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Thanks Peter. I picked my nearly new up again this morning. A lovely thing it is. I think I may have gotten it off eBay a few years ago.

Now, I am trying to figure out why I have not put it in the L42a1 kit.:confused:

OG = Object or Objective Glass or lens

Objective (optics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

hi I have a scout telescope marked W OTTWAY EALING LONDON 1915
TEL.SCT.REGT MK2 .S . KEC OS. 126 GA 22150 it is brass with three extending sections ,however the main body is square section ,approx 50mm x50 mm . I have several scopes ,but have never seen a square one .
has anyone heard of these?

Steve nz

Years ago I found a pair of compact 8X25 binoculars at an estate sale that matched those in a photo spread on equipment carried by British Sniper teams.
The binoculars had been in water at some point, they were infiltrated by sediment and the leather covering had disappeared .
I cleaned these and recovered them, no markings denoting military use are visible, only a manufacturers mark of "Dupont of Paris", and "Aurore".

If anyone has info on this type of binocular let me know.

Probably not the same as those in the photo, but could be the civilian equivalent.
While at the Field Museum I saw a very similar pair in an exhibit of a naturalist's gear.

PS
Years after finding the glasses and restoring them I found a perfectly fitted fine leather case at a flea market with "Fommer Italy" stamped on the bottom.

A lot of these Scout Reg Scopes were sold off by the surplus trade until well into the 70's and even Broadhursts sold them as commercial scopes under various names. 'Marksman' was one name I seem to recall. So if you see one cheap. grab it for its interchangeable spare parts. Additionally, some of their other commercial telescopes utilised many of the parts from the trusty old Scout Reg scope too

G'day Guys,

My Grandad's brother recently passed away and he has found the old telescope he used to use for long range shooting. Anyway...i had a look at it and it's in quite good nick. After reading this forum i now know it is old military surplus. I the smallest (first??) of the extending tubes it had the following stamped:

Tele Sct Regt MkIIS
H.B.M.Co OS.126 GA
REGo No 5141

So i was wondering, does anyone know why type of telescope this is? What were they primarily used for? and is it something for hanging on to (other than for sentimental values).

Cheers,
Josh

It looks like you struck oil Josh. They were designed to replace the heavy and cumbersome Telescope GS or Mk3 as it was known. These Mk3 telescopes used up most of the worlds supply of brass. The Scout Reg scope was in fact a telescope to be used by the regimental scouts. I think it was initially called the HELIO Scope as in TELESCOPE Heliograph...., as in flashing mirrors and not flashing at females!

Anyway, they were used as the spotting telescope and put in the sniper chests. But initially, only the ARMY snipers had them, not the Marines (who were under the control of the Admiralty) and the RAF (who came under the Air Ministry) But after the mid 60's or so, the Scout Reg scope became the norm after the centralisation of weaponry went to Donnington and Thatcham.

There, short history lesson for you. They're not rare as such and if you're selling it to me, then they are VERY common!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

It looks like you struck oil Josh. They were designed to replace the heavy and cumbersome Telescope GS or Mk3 as it was known. These Mk3 telescopes used up most of the worlds supply of brass. The Scout Reg scope was in fact a telescope to be used by the regimental scouts. I think it was initially called the HELIO Scope as in TELESCOPE Heliograph...., as in flashing mirrors and not flashing at females!

Anyway, they were used as the spotting telescope and put in the sniper chests. But initially, only the ARMY snipers had them, not the Marines (who were under the control of the Admiralty) and the RAF (who came under the Air Ministry) But after the mid 60's or so, the Scout Reg scope became the norm after the centralisation of weaponry went to Donnington and Thatcham.

There, short history lesson for you. They're not rare as such and if you're selling it to me, then they are VERY common!!!!!!!!!

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Thank You Peter for the fast and informative reply. It's really a quite a nice, pretty cool piece of gear. It is still in the original leather case and has a little folding tripod stand that goes with it!! I'll endeavour to get some pictures put up. The tripod is painted green (for camouflage??). I don't know if the tripod and or paintjob is original or not though.

On the inside on the leather strap for the case he has his initials and the year 1944 written. I don't know if this is when he first acquired it or not but that is a good chance because that would have made him 19 at the time.

I'm now hoping they might turn up the old .303 and .22 he used to shoot with.

Cheers,
Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lance

Of interest on KEC scope's, the "early" example I just picked up, #6020 has a 1943 date on the tube by "KEC". It is the first Scout Regt. of any maker that I have come across dated.

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Ye gods, this is an ancient thread, but I just picked up my first IIs and its markings are relevant to your post:

TEL. SCT. REGT. IIs
K.E.C. 1943
O.S.126 G .A.
5986

(Note the space between the "G" and "period" just in front of the "A.")

It's in quite good condition with a very nice original leather case. Paid quite a bit (too much...) for it but my quest to find this telescope to buy revealed a ton of literal trash at some rather stellar prices, so decided to pull the trigger and be done with the project. Poorer but happy.

Does a manual for this telescope exist? What is its name and nomenclature?

TIA.

Mine reads;
TELE. SCT REGT MkII S

H B M Co OS 126 GA

REGd No 4919

/|\

Interestingly the leather scope carry case is painted grey/bluey colour would this have been Air Force issue or someone post war painting it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

Mine reads;
TELE. SCT REGT MkII S

H B M Co OS 126 GA

REGd No 4919

/|\

Interestingly the leather scope carry case is painted grey/bluey colour would this have been Air Force issue or someone post war painting it.

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I have an RAF issue No4T, and whilst the 'box' is painted blue, non of the contents are :


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../No4T001-1.jpg

Yep my telescopes leather carry case is exactly the same colour as your "T"s transit chest Alan.

Are you only interested in the Tel. Sct. Regt. Mk.II S Lance?

In WWI "Consol" (Consolidated Optical Co.) of Toronto, Ontario produced the typical three draw telescopes; Signaller's and GS if I remember correctly.

I have a couple of them, but don't remember which they are at the moment.

In WWII some of the same basic type were produced by Research Enterprises Ltd. to a very high standard, before they dropped the antique concept and went to work on the single-draw Telescope, Snipers, Observing.

Yes, just the Sct. Regt Mk IIs, these telescopes are a Pandora's box that I am trying not to open!

We often came across the other makes of Tele Sct Regt scopes and they were a problem. The spares were all, seemingly, from B&C and some wouldn't even remotely fit the telescope you were working on without a lot of bench fitting or lathe work and a thread file. That was the reason why many just got the chop. A lot of those from Ordnance went into the watch towers along the Irish border. Then the very nice Swifts came out. Nice to look at but equally troublesome until the maintenance group got to grips with them and authorised locking down the adjustment mechanisms, leaving only the focus adjustable.

You could have 5 sets of spare parts for a Sct Reg scope but still couldn't get it serviceable to the EMER spec. Even B&C spares wouldn't necessarily fit B&C scopes.

Someone mentioned RAF regiment snipers. The RAF kits had some really nice B&C telescopes in the kits. One type I remember was the little x20 BRITANNIC scope and another the x20 NELSON scope. Both the same but a different nautical name. I kept a Britannic when I had a chance to write one off and it is marked 'A crown M above 1940 above the RAF part number 9E/857' with the B&C logo too. Quite why the RAF needed sniper kits was something we often wondered about........

Rock apes!!!