Sending out an :sos:. Is this one real. It belongs to islandhopper. Thanks for any help. Lock Bar Sight Originality - Page 3 - Military Surplus Collectors Forums
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Sending out an :sos:. Is this one real. It belongs to islandhopper. Thanks for any help. Lock Bar Sight Originality - Page 3 - Military Surplus Collectors Forums
Does anyone have original lock screws in their collection to compare with? I have exactly one in mine. Thanks for any help.
I think the main issue is the bottom of the holes. Mine has pretty much flat bottoms when I have seen others that are definitely original that the side holes are angled down toward the center hole, and the center hole is beveled to the center at about a 45 degree angle. The one that is pictured was purchased as a NOS original. It measures just like my other original well used version (except the center hole is not as deep in the center, because it is more flat). I put some bluing on the bottom of it that is in the white to see if it would take, but it would not - indicating to me that it is made of stainless steel. So other than the shape of the bottom holes, I would think it was a real NOS part. It may be, but that is why I am interested in seeing or hearing about what others have. dbarn has a gas lock screw that has flat bottom side holes, but his center hole has the beveled, pointed bottom (dbarn, does your center hole look like a 45 degree bevel?). Do others have original screws with flat bottoms or bottoms that are not as beveled or pointed? Here are the pics of my supposed NOS. All of this is meant to educate myself on this subject.
[IMGW]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/islandhopper11/GasLockScrewSideSlot.jpg?t=1240428827[/IMGW]
[IMGW]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/islandhopper11/GasLockScrewTight.jpg?t=1240428894[/IMGW]
[IMGW]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/islandhopper11/GasLockScrew1.jpg?t=1240428931[/IMGW]
[IMGW]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/islandhopper11/GasLockScrew2.jpg?t=1240429005[/IMGW]
For what it's worth, I have one lock screw that I was told is a repro. On this one the bottom seems to have the "45 degree bevel". The other, which is on a 1941 M1, that I believe to be original has a more flat bottom. Also the screw hole on the repro appears to be a bit smaller overall, but the repro has not been used, the "original" has and may be a bit disformed. If someone hadn't mentioned that it was a repro. I would never know, in fact, I still am not sure. I should have asked at the time, why the person thought it was a repro. but I didn't.:dunno:
Joe, do you have a photo of the one that you were told is a repro? A shot of the face/slot and inside if possible would be great.
In the gas cylinder screw photos above, the slot appears to have been made by three drilling operations, one on each side and a larger one in the center. I have what I suspect is a reproduction. The slot appears to have been cast. The opening is smooth and regular in shape, but the inside walls are rough. Can anyone confirm that it is a reproduction. Also, in checking two post war screws, they both are attracted to a magnet as is the reproduction. What material were the early screws made of.
400 series (416, 420) stainless steel, heat treatable and magnetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by RBruce
To my knowlege all USGI gas cylinder lock screws were made of stainless steel. And stainless steel is magnetic, depending on how much nickel is in it, just like other types of steel. More nickel, less magnetic. But stainless steel cannot be blued with cold blue products like Birchwood Casey or Oxpho Blue. You would need to use a different kind of solution like Caswells - made specifically for stainless steel (people use this quite often to refinish their gas cylinders, gas cylinder locks and gas cylinder lock screws, which are all stainless steel) If you can post a photo of your single slot, I'll bet there are some who can tell you one way or the other. The repros that I have seen that are definitely not the real thing are the ones with the large center hole. The depth of the holes of those repros are quite a bit more shallow as well. Usually they are not stainless steel either and so the bottoms are not "in the white" but are rather finished.
Years ago when people started to fake the early single slot gas cylinder screws, they made sure that you could still mount the M5 bayonet. The fake screws will accept the stud on the M5 bayonet - the original screws will not accept the M5 bayonet.
A couple of photos of my well used original. Come to think of it, the one side hole is pretty flat bottomed but the other is sort of angled down. Kind of. The center hole is definitely beveled though. The first pic shows that some. It looks like the center hole may have been drilled a little off center as well as the side holes are a little different. I've seen this before. I wonder why the single slot was made the way it was. Why not just drill four same sized holes in a row to make an even slot for a regular head screw driver or other similar tightening device. I wonder why they made it with the big hole in the center and the two smaller ones on the outside?
[IMGW]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/islandhopper11/SingleSlot2.jpg?t=1240580964[/IMGW]
[IMGW]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/islandhopper11/SingleSlot1.jpg?t=1240581160[/IMGW]
[IMGW]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa291/islandhopper11/SingleSlot3.jpg?t=1240581198[/IMGW]
I have never seen a real one on a gun that was not at least Slightly buggered
IslandHopper, I believe your gas lock screw is Winchester. It is identical to the one on my Aug. 1944 Winchester, which I believe is original except for the stock and trigger group. I have a second one, which came with a complete Winchester gas cylinder assembly I purchased from Scott Duff several months ago. The uneven center hole seems to be a trait of at least late WRA production as I have seen a few others on WRA rifles
Thanks John. Are you refering to the NOS screw or the well used screw? And when you say uneven, do you mean that it is beveled or more flat with the circular milling marks in the bottom? Thanks.
I was referring to the well used screw. Looking at the face of the screw, you can see that the center hole is not even at the edges like the S.A. made screws
My WRA also has some very faint concentric rings on the face from the milling process.
My WRA also has those same faint concentric rings as well as a border around the edge of the face. This in the 2.4 mil. range.
Gotcha! Any thoughts on the NOS as to whether it actually is NOS or a darn good hump?