What to look for in purchasing a 1903

I am new to this forum and could use some help. Over the past year or so, I have been fallen prey to lure of older service rifles and have been lucky to find a nice M-14 and Garand. I'm now looking for a 1903 (and, perhaps a Lee Enfield) but, frankly could use some help compiling a list of questions to ask and issues to spot when looking at these rifles. I've tried to search the forum and am sure I've missed this advice in other posts - I apologize if that is the case. I'm trying to get some reading material on the rifles as well but, there is a gun show this weekend that often has some nice rifles on hand.

Any help that you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your insights and assistance.

Preferably, you want an all original 03. There are many variations of the 03, some like the old ones (low numbers) and some prefer the newer ones (high numbers and Remingtons). Some prefer Springfield Armory rifles over Rock Island Armory rifles. There are a lot of choices, but basically, you want the stock, barrel, and receiver to be a match, all in good condition. Do you want a pre-WWI, WWI, post-WWI, or WWII rifle?

Condition is everything. Mixmasters are cheaper, and are fun to shoot, but have near zero collector value. I suggest you take a knowledgable friend along with you for help.

Jim

Jim

While the collectability of "mixmasters" is lower i do like them because they have a history, even if it can't really be determined. An all original rifle has really high collectability but was almost surely a "rack queen."

If you like to shoot your milsurps you needen't feel bad about blasting away with a really nice arsenal rebuild "mixmaster."

As Jim said, whether the rifle is purely collectable or a shooter condition is everything. That includes mechanics as well as cosmetics. Where you are located plays a part too. In places where there is not a high demand for milsurps they are cheaper.

Good hunting!

Thanks for the advice. I'm in Northern Virginia, so demand can be pretty high given the concentration of military personnel in the area. An acqaintance claiming to be knowledgable about these rifled said that the inter-war era guns had better build quality that the war era guns. If that is true, I would probably focus on that period. I have mixed feelings about collector versus shooter. While there is better long-term value in a collector, my preference is for a shooter since it pains me not to shoot what I buy. In an ideal world, I'd have one of each.

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Originally Posted by patton63

Thanks for the advice. I'm in Northern Virginia, so demand can be pretty high given the concentration of military personnel in the area. An acqaintance claiming to be knowledgable about these rifled said that the inter-war era guns had better build quality that the war era guns. If that is true, I would probably focus on that period. I have mixed feelings about collector versus shooter. While there is better long-term value in a collector, my preference is for a shooter since it pains me not to shoot what I buy. In an ideal world, I'd have one of each.

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I don't know if the interwar rifles were actually better in any area except possibly cosmetics. The Remington M1903s, for instance, are excellent rifles and my Remington M1903A3 is the most accurate service rifle I own, and I own some really good ones. Thinking of that, since you plan on shooting your rifle the M1903A3 sights are much more user friendly than those on the M1903 weapon.

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Originally Posted by Art

I don't know if the interwar rifles were actually better in any area except possibly cosmetics. The Remington M1903s, for instance, are excellent rifles and my Remington M1903A3 is the most accurate service rifle I own, and I own some really good ones. Thinking of that, since you plan on shooting your rifle the M1903A3 sights are much more user friendly than those on the M1903 weapon.

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Thanks. I'll focus my search on an 03a3. I realize that this is an unfair question, given the multiple variables at play but, what is a reasonable price range for a quality "shooter" grade 1903a3?

BUY THE BORE!!!! And learn how to judge that at a gunshow.
There are a number of books on the market that discuss the finer points. From a view of authenicity try The Collectible '03. JC Harrison, M1903 Springfield Rifle, Joe Poyer, An Illustrated Guide to the '03 Springfield Service Rifle, Bruce Canfield. Obviously there are many other excellent books available, this is meant only as a few suggestions.
The idea on Buy the Bore is cost. Stocks are availble but rebarreling is $$$$$. At a show this past weekend in Lakeland, FL, '03s went from $550 on up, some over a $1k. You have to know what to look for.

Also, get registered with the CMP, CMP Home, so you can see prices on '03s and buy some ammo, the cheapest around.

I used to live in Northern Verginia. Drive South to the many gunshows in your area. You will find piles of nice keepers at the shows. Good luck, and yes, buy the bore.

I've bought 2 1903's this year and have an 03A3 in restoration. From my (relatively ignorant) point of view, unless you are an expert, as these guys are, I wouldn't try to buy an all original rifle. There's too many guys out there who can assemble what appears to be (from the outside and to the non-expert) an all original rifle. The price will be higher than an arsenal rebuild, but not so high that folks will pass it by.
After a year of shopping, I have a 1932 1903A1 that is original except an HS 44 barrel, perfect bore, for $600. The 1903A3 I paid $200 for 15 years ago, bought an unfired 44 barrel for $75, correct stock and metal another $200, so I'll have $600 in that one. The third 1903, I won't say was "bubba'd", but was modified probably 40 years ago. I bought it specifically because it was already drilled for a receiver sight. The previous owner used it as a target rifle and had NM parts installed. This one is being returned to original configuration with correct period parts, (except the NM trigger) a CMP C stock, and Lyman target sights. I'll have $900 in this one, mainly because the Lyman 48 and 17 sights cost so much. Obviously, it's a shooter, plain and simple. It'll be used for CBA modified sight matches.
Bottom line, I consider the CMP rifle a collector. It's all original except an arsenal rebarrel. A great rifle with some obvious authentic history behind it. The other 2 are straight shooters and I love all 3 of them.

The gun show had a number of 1903's to choose from, all in varying grades, conditions, and models. I ended up getting a Smith-Corona 1903a3, with a barrel date of 11-42. It has the following markings:

Left side of the stock: FJA (in a square); crossed barrels; RIA EB (in a square)

Bottom of stock: P (in a circle right behind the trigger guard); four numbers in a square, triangle, circle, and diamond right in front of the trigger guard.

The bore looks great, and the wood and finish are in nice shape.

I saw a lot of samples and this one just seemed like the "right" one.

Thanks again for all of the information.

- Chris

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Originally Posted by patton63

The gun show had a number of 1903's to choose from, all in varying grades, conditions, and models. I ended up getting a Smith-Corona 1903a3, with a barrel date of 11-42. It has the following markings:

Left side of the stock: FJA (in a square); crossed barrels; RIA EB (in a square)

Bottom of stock: P (in a circle right behind the trigger guard); four numbers in a square, triangle, circle, and diamond right in front of the trigger guard.

The bore looks great, and the wood and finish are in nice shape.

I saw a lot of samples and this one just seemed like the "right" one.

Thanks again for all of the information.


- Chris

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Patton - Are you sure that barrel date is 11-42 ? - Is the barrel stamped SC ?

As has been stated above, bore condition is first consideration. Invest in a gauge that can measure throat erosion (TE) and muzzle wear (MW) The scale for both is 0 to 8 which corresponds to .300" to .308" They basically measure how high the lands are. Ideally, a new barrel would measure 0 on both MW & TE. During WWII, standards were relaxed & brand new barrels sometimes measured 3 right off the production line. I'd hesitate to by a rifle that measured over 3 MW (muzzle wear is the more critical factor) or 5 TE.

Next would be headspace. I once purchased a rifle that had excess headspace & it caused me grief & problems. If you don't wish to invest in Go and No Go gauges (you need both and they are more expensive than a bore gauge), insist on an inspection period & have a competent gunsmith check headspace.

After that, I'd look for the mechanical condition of the rear & front sights (opperate freely & no bent/broken parts; safety on the bolt shroud (does it turn freely); firing pin & striker (striker has smooth, hemispherical head with no pits or erosion and the sear face on the firing pin nice & even with no pits); bolt face (striker hole round & no erosion or pits; bolt lugs (wear pattern show both engage; no pits); safety lug clearance at least .03" from receiver bridge; sear engagement nice & even (can be seen at receiver tang when bolt is removed); trigger pull has definite two-stage pull with a definite stop at the end of the 2nd stage & a definite, consistent let off; extractor extracts & ejector ejects; guard screws tighten up OK (slots not buggered & screws not broken); magazine cut off has plunger & spring & operates smoothly; follower & spring function OK (follower spring in many rifles needs replacement - if it has lost its spring, it causes poor feeding as the cartridges are not pushed up enough where the bolt can push them into the chamber.

Last is finish - pitting & rust downgrade a rifle. The stock should be free of cracks, splits, chips. Repairs are OK if they are done well - US Army repaired many stocks & did a good job. Foreign governments like the Greeks made rough repairs & it shows.

That's it in a nut shell! A piece of cake!

Hey Chris,

Can we see some photos? Sounds like you did well.

LB

hooray for you; we all know that the Smith-Corona is the top of the line. Sounds like you have a copy of my rifle, Duggaboy

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Originally Posted by Lancebear

Hey Chris,

Can we see some photos? Sounds like you did well.

LB

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Thanks. I will post some pics tonight or tomorrow.