1917 US Army Manual on Sniping

I found, by chance, a copy of a military book (33 pages) from the War College for US Army officers on how to set up and use their snipers aggressively in trench warfare. Odd thing is, it was published the month WWI was declared.:madsmile: It is very evident that the US Amy knew that sniping would be a very integral part of their actions in Europe long before our troops arrived in France.:super:

The two pictures attached were illustrations in the book. One appears to be of British snipers and the other appears to be a Sengalese sniper using a sniperscope. Does anyone recognize the rifle and scope the British sniper is using?:cool:

Ignore the first picture, I uploaded it by mistake and can't get rid of it now.:slap:

Jim

Hey Jim,

The rifle looks like an Enfield No 1 Mark III? Have no clue about sniper scopes.

Robert

The scope appears to be mounted directly over the bore, which I didn't know you could do with a MK III. I don't know anything about them actually. The photo was obviously taken before April, 1917 to have been published at that time. The rifles in the other two pictures appear even stranger to me.

Jim

The second photo looks like a French Lebel rifle

looks like a good scope in that the diameter is big enough, unlike the US scopes for the period, and into the second war.

Could the scope be a Noske? Or even a German scope bought before the war?

Jim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton

Could the scope be a Noske? Or even a German scope bought before the war?

Jim

---

Jim, I don't think Rudolph Noske was making scopes until after WW1.
My guess on the 3rd pic is that its a Periscopic Prism scope mounted on a No.1 Mk3.

The British were caught short in the early days of WW1 and used a little bit of everything they could get their hands on - even some Winchester A5's and Warner Swazey's. Later on when they more or less standardized on the P14 as a sniper platform they used the PP scope with a modified 'claw" mount.

Regards,

Jim

Jim,

In "Sniping in France", Pritchard said the best combination they found was a P14 with a scope mounted over the bore, and is I remember correctly, his scope of choice was the A5. You can download "Sniping in France" for free, and if you need the web site, I can try to find it again. That obviously isn't an A5, but could the rifle be a P14?

Jim

"I found, by chance, a copy of a military book (33 pages) from the War College for US Army officers on how to set up and use their snipers aggressively in trench warfare. Odd thing is, it was published the month WWI was declared." -- Mr. J. Tarleton, upthread

Doesn't surprise me at all.

Woodrow (expletive deleted) Wilson thought he was God's gift to America and as such could not be wrong.

He forbade the US Armed Forces from doing ANYTHING to prepare for a war during the US neutrality. He even forced several officers to resign because they had conducted talks with major manufacturers about war production before April 1917.

So any officer who issued a manual on sniping (clearly a reflection of the War Wilson did not want named) would have found his career at an early end.

It's hard to believe but has been documented often.

The rifle in the second picture being used by the Sengaleze sniper appears to be a Swiss straight-pull bolt action. The rifle in the third picture appears to be a British No. 1 Mark III. I further note that the sniper has a No. 1 Mark III bayonet scabbard strapped to his side. I agree with Lancebear.

J.B.

Hey Jim,

The rifle in question has an external ten shot magazine just in front of the trigger guard. The P14 has a five shot internal capacity magazine like the '03. I have a U.S. Model 1917 Remington sittin' right behind me, it is a near exact copy of the P14 with the exception of being in .30-06 caliber and six shot internal mag. That's a Mark III, with whatever commercial scope the Brits could find or whatever.

Robert

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton

Jim,

In "Sniping in France", Pritchard said the best combination they found was a P14 with a scope mounted over the bore, and is I remember correctly, his scope of choice was the A5. You can download "Sniping in France" for free, and if you need the web site, I can try to find it again. That obviously isn't an A5, but could the rifle be a P14?

Jim

---

According to Ian Skennerton, the British in WWI fitted Winchester P14 rifles with a special fine-adjustment rear sight for use as sniper rifles. Skennerton went on to add that the rifles were more accurate with iron sights than No. 1 Mark III's fitted with scopes.

J.B.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton

Jim,

In "Sniping in France", Pritchard said the best combination they found was a P14 with a scope mounted over the bore, and is I remember correctly, his scope of choice was the A5. You can download "Sniping in France" for free, and if you need the web site, I can try to find it again. That obviously isn't an A5, but could the rifle be a P14?

Jim

---

Jim anotther tell tale is the chunky charger guide that gives the third rifle away as a No. 1 Mk 3.
The brits used a dozen or more separate commercial gunsmiths to mount scopes. Some did just a few - others did 100's. There is a good pic of a No1 Mk3 with an A5 in Skinnerton's sniper book. The scope is mounted well off to the left (not that they were all done that way).

Regards.

Jim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John Beard

According to Ian Skennerton, the British in WWI fitted Winchester P14 rifles with a special fine-adjustment rear sight for use as sniper rifles. Skennerton went on to add that the rifles were more accurate with iron sights than No. 1 Mark III's fitted with scopes.

J.B.

---

Prichard noted the same rifle (P14) and its iron sights (Appendix C in his book), but he much prefered scoped rifles, and he formed and ran the sniper schools. A lot of the sniping was indeed accomplished with iron sights,:madsmile: but at long distances, I don't think any sniper would prefer iron sights. Comparative accuracy of the two rifles is of no surprise to me.:super:

Jim