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Can somebody point me in the right direction for getting some trigger work done on my 1903, I'm in upstate NY. Shot a vintage match this weekend and scored pretty well, 98 prone slow - 96 prone rapid - then a crappy 86 standing slow.
Trigger pull is just to much, will pick up 5.25 lbs with my trigger weight set.
Would like to get it down to the 3.5 lbs that CMP allows.
Thanks a bunch
If you want it done right, learn how to do it yourself. It's not difficult if you have the small, hard abrasive stones that let you proceed in small, smooth increments.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3trigger-1.jpg
Polishing the rear face of the sear, always in line with its direction of travel, with a very fine, flat stone will smooth and lighten both pulls if the sear is not already super-smooth. Finally, a light coat of graphite or moly grease on humps and sear face can make the trigger pull significantly slicker than it would be dry or oiled.
try a lighter main spring, and trigger rebound spring.
before you mess with the trigger, sear, or cam.
Jocko I have asked this question many times and have never received a responce except do it yourself or change springs.I guess the art has died as no one does it anymore.Remember this is a collectors forum and very few members every seriously shoot 03's they just collect and plink with them.
After I wasted quite a few dollars trying to do it myself by ruining triggers I started swapping triggers until I found one that was worth anything.This I use for target practice and matches.
Remember this is a collectors forum and most of them do not seriously shoot but are more informal plinkers and if the trigger isn't horrible it's good enough for them.Not that there is anything wrong with that but they don't understand the type of trigger a good tight position can be appreciated in.
Good luck in your quest.
I suspect there are plenty of serious shooters here who know how to create and use a good M1903 trigger pull. Someone who can't manage a simple trigger job should probably take up golf or some other hobby that doesn't require understanding a mechanical device more complex than a club. It takes courage and good insurance to undertake trigger work for money, since a guy who can't understand how a trigger works is sometimes the same type who'll call a lawyer after a smooth, light trigger does its job when he "forgot" to keep the muzzle pointed somewhere safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by polska
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...903clean-1.jpg
hmmmm, i understand it just fine, i bet i have the mechanics of a 1903 down better then most gunsmiths on the market today.
that being said, i cant via the net, show someone how to clean up the contact area of a trigger, also the liability of {telling} someone to change or modify the fire control of ANY firearm. is a grey area at best.
if one were to tell someone to stone down the contact points of a sear and trigger, then they take too much off and shoot themselvs or another shooter, that would make you responsible.
if the rifle was sent to me,i would have no problem smoothing the trigger, also making the bolt work easier..
without grinding or doing more then cleaning to contact points, changing the springs, and light stone work..nothing more.
like i always say...if it aint broke, dont fix it.
If teaching someone about trigger work is a sin, how did you learn? And who will do it when you retire?
I admire the courage of anyone who works on triggers professionally, and hope you all have plenty of insurance - not because you do poor work but because your good work is subject to misuse by idiots and subsequent litigation by idiots' lawyers.
If you'll read my first post on this topic, you'll see it's about "light stone work" - not "grinding" - and it doesn't tell anyone to "stone down the contact points" but rather describes how the trigger humps relate to the pull's stages.
parashooter I did not disrespect you, please do not disrespect me.
The original post asked where he could get some trigger work done?Ihave asked the same and got the same responces.Seems no one does them.Don't give me that liability stuff because there are adds for trigger work on M1's,M14's,Rem700's,1911's and the list goes on.
I don't try to bed my rifles or rebarrel them or install new sights or anything else. I am not mechanical inclined and leave such jobs to people who are.
Many a gun has been ruined by basement gunsmiths because of so called easy jobs.I believe we call them Bubba's.I believe one is better to pay his money and have it done correctly,it usually turns out to be the most inexpensive way.
I bought a set of stones from Brownells for trigger stoning. They work very well but are not cheap, but they are worth every penny. It can be done with a square file wrapped in 400 grit sandpaper. Just remember to maintain all square edges (VERY IMPORTANT), and don't reduce sear engagement (don't reduce the height of the trigger sear or cocking piece sear unless you KNOW what you are doing). I also cut (grind) off 1/2 coil on the trigger spring (have cut off a complete coil, but that felt excessive to me). Don't forget to polish the underside of the receiver where the "humps" cam on the receiver. Reducing the humps if fine, if you have ruined enough triggers to know what you are doing.
I don't fool with the firing pin spring as reducing its coil strength increases lock time, and doesn't really reduce trigger pull much IF you do the trigger work correctly. The main springs in my two bolts (below) seem to be stronger than normal rather than lighter.
I have in my collection two rifles that were used by Marines for target practice or match shooting. They have very fine triggers, and I have taken them apart to carefully examine what was done to make them so precise. The first stage is almost unnoticeable, with a short second stage,and a trigger pull of 3 lbs to 3 1/2 lbs. Comparable work was performed on the cocking piece sears. The trigger pulls are noticible light and very smooth. The bolts are highly polished. The sear surfaces look like little mirrors. All cams and cam surfaces are also polished, and the "humps" have been altered significantly (we are talking about relatively minor reductions here, and the reduction of one is related to the other).
I changed out the bolt on one of these rifles (to make it "correct"), and the trigger pull changed a bunch. Back into the rifle went the original non-matching bolt. I cannot improve these triggers, and the workmanship is very precise and excellent.
Reducing sear engagement will greatly improve trigger pulls and crispness, but you MUST know what you are doing in this area, as you can make your rifle very dangerous to be around if you go too far, and in my opinion, most people do. If you want to venture into this area, it is the cocking piece sear you reduce, and it is a very minor reduction. You must maintain at minimum, 1/8" of sear engagement, and that is with the bolt in its highest position. This is measured by blackening both sears with a magic marker, and dry firing the rifle a few times. If you have a sloppy bolt to receiver fit, the bolt may be able to "cam over" the trigger sear and fire when you close the bolt. Been there and done that. If that happens, immediately throw the cocking piece into the nearest lake.
Buy an extra trigger and cocking piece before you start. Most likely you will need one or both.
And last, again, keep all edges absolutely square and sear surfaces completely flat. I use a plastic draftman's triangle to make sure I am stoning square with all surfaces.
Good luck and proceed slowly. Stoning isn't crotchrocket science.
Jim
I forgot to add that if you want to go the whole nine yards (anyone know the origin of that expression?), you can coat all polished cam and sear surfaces with Gun Juice and put them in a 250F oven for twenty minutes. Be prepared for a drastic change, and you might not like it.
I Gun Juice my barrels for longevity, and Gun Juice will raise POI at 100 yards significantly. I had to change out the front sight for a taller one on a 38-55 Marlin after Gun Juicing the barrel. The POI at 100 yards went up 12 ". Typical change in POI after Gun Juicing is on the order of 3" to 6" rise, depending on rifle and caliber. I have personally detected no increase in accuracy with Gun Juice. Others say differently.
Jim
is gunjuice somethimg like toejam, or fromunda cheese?
many of the 1903,s that are out in collectors hands, had the original main springs changed during rebuild.
some were changed with 1917 springs..much heavier springs, and a tad larger.
Gun Juice is a product that slows throat erosion in gun barrels. It actually works. I will try to relate the story from memory. It was developed by a dentist in Houston to prolong the life of his wife's 17 cal that was going through barrels at a fast clip. Barrel accuracy went from a few hundred rounds to thousands.
I think he sells the stuff to the aircraft industry under another name. It also practically eliminates fouling. I have been using it for many years with excellent results.
BTW, it has to be cooked on, which is done through firing of the rifle.
Microlon Products - A One-Time Treatment of Friction-Reduction Products that Really Work!
Jim
i have a .22 chetah that i cant seem to break in,,made from a Weatherby barrel.
iv tried, different weights, moly coated, hot load, light loads, ect, cant get better then a 2 inch group, from a 700 Rem,
this might do the trick.
Jim said "I forgot to add that if you want to go the whole nine yards (anyone know the origin of that expression)"
I seem to remember my father or grandfather talking about it. They had said it had to do with the amount of cloth to make a suit. Don't know if that's true or not.
Each fifty cal machine gun on WWII fighter planes had nine yards of belt ammo. If you wanted that enemy plane shot down, you gave him "the whole nine yards".
Jim
Isn't that about 27 feet of something. Like maybe a machine gun belt? he shot the whole 9 yards.:beerchug:
I didn't notice the 2nd page of posts in this thread. At first I was going to be a smart-ars and say it a Bruce Willis movie.:madsmile:
Jim, there are two full pages in my book (pages 256 --258) regarding the aspects of getting a safe and cleanly breaking trigger pull, but the whole SECRET in getting a trigger that breaks like a glass rod with absolutely NO CREEP I learned from Crossman. And that is that the Armory was wrong in making the sear nose flat !!! It must have the area engaged by the sear notch ROUNDED ABOUT THE SEAR PIN so that there is no camming to the rear during the second stage of pull.
That would certainly make sense, but would make an accurate job more difficult to prevent premature discharges. I have an extra trigger, and I will try it to see if it works. I am also going to try to duplicate the two Marine Corps triggers, and will check for radiusing.
That sear notch radius may not be as simple as it sounds.
Thanks, Clark. How are you doing?
Jim Tarleton
After reading this thread at least 10 times and taking apart my A3 trigger at least 15 times and spending 3 hours with oil soaked grits of paper from 400-2000 backed by a machined piece of steel I now have a Mann accuracy device built into a rifle with a zero creep 3.5 pound trigger. 3.5lbs is perfect for me since I'm kinda heavy handed.
The rifle had never been fired (or maybe very little) and the trigger was brand new plus the guy who started the Mann project parked everything so I had a very gritty, full mile of creep 7.5lb trigger when I started.
Sure I could have dropped a Timney in but I prefer the two stage.
Thanks to everyone who contributed.
I've got the most unique F/TR rifle ever!
Old general stores sold just about everything a family could need, including fabric. Embedded in the counter were small brass nails three feet apart, which were used to measure yards of material, which usually came in bolts of nine yards. If you needed only a few yards of material, you would "get down to brass tacks" and buy the desired amount. If, however, you needed a large quantity of fabric, then you would just say give me "the whole nine yards."
(just something I read) :wave:
Funny I had heard the 9 yards was the length of a machine gun belt in an aircraft. As in he shot the whole 9 yards.
I juiced my bolt per your instructions then slid it, hot, into the juiced receiver. The action is even smoother now. I used a piece from a ceramic knife sharpener to polish the sear a little bit more. The trigger pull is smoother and crisper, as you said it would be. Thanks for the tip.:cheers: Will be juicing the barrel once I get the copper fouling out. Just ordered some KG-12 for that job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
The whole nine yards--- equals 27 feet of .50 cal ammo packed into the wings of WW2 fighters If they came back empty of ammo they gave them the whole 9 yards
Where can these be bought ?Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckindenver