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I am getting sick and tired of running a brush into the neck of my rifle cases when sizing them. I see that some of the companies sell a carbide expander ball for opening the neck back up to the needed size. I think I saw they are made by redding but no where can I find if they will fit into my standard RCBS die set. This should hopefully end the need to lube the inside of the neck.
Has anyone had any experience with these?
Are you getting a lot of neck expansion resistance -- like the case "squeeks" with the strain of opening up?
Your post intrigued me so I made some measurements. I use the Redding carbide balls in all my Redding dies. I have a Redding dies in 30-06, 308 and several other cartridges. In 223, I have both Redding and RCBS, so I will answer in the context of the 223 dies. What cartridge are you interested in?
The simple answer is no, it is not a drop-in replacement for an RCBS die.
The more complicated answer is maybe, perhaps, it might just work but it will require some work from you to make it work.
Please note, the discussion below is relative to the 223 dies I have. The details for the 30-06 may be different. The decapping stem for the 223, the 30-06 and all other Redding dies look nearly identical in generic design. I am encouraged by this but they do differ in their dimensional details, so caution is advised.
The Redding carbide ball will fit on the RCBS decapper shaft. You will have to hone/grind the RCBS expander ball to a smaller diameter such that it does no neck expanding. It will be used only as a threaded retainer for the ball and the decapping pin.
You may need to shorten the "threaded retainer" a bit to provide some room for the carbide ball to float axially along the decapper shaft. Redding allows 0.10" of axial float. I don't think you can or should or have to provide that much float. The retainer only threads on to a depth of about 0.175", so cutting a full 0.10" off would reduce thread engagement too much. I do think you could take off 0.050" with no trouble.
Anyway, people here have helped me. Perhaps this repays the favor in some small way.
Buy a Redding bushing die, and do away with an expander ball all together.
Don
I have broken several of the Redding carbide expander balls in 223.
The thinness of the ball wall and the brittleness of carbide aren't a good combo.(their words)
In sizes larger than 223 they are probably much a better alternative.
Redding did replace the broken carbide expander balls and advised me to use motor mica anyway.
Bummer!
I've had mine for almost ten years with no hint of a problem.
A bushing die does not alleviate the need to have an expander ball. Sooner or later, and with some rifles perhaps always, you will get dented necks. You need the ball to round them out. If you don't want neck thickness non-uniformities on the inside of the case neck (you will be using your bullet as an expander ball), then you need an expander ball.
Buying a Redding bushing die with a carbide ball is a good option, perhaps the best option, but it isn't the only option if you are handy enough to make the mods.
Au contraire. Any dented necks are quickly made round once again using any tapered tool such as a punch, or the knife sharpener that I use. Any "non-uniformities" in the ID of the neck are removed when inserting a bullet, as it acts in the very same way as an expander mandrel, in moving any ID inconsistencies to the OD. Have had 6+ years of experience in reloading this way for 1,000 yard competition, and have zero use for expander balls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Mills
Don
Then again, you are using a punch or knife sharpener to perform the very same operation. So, in that sense, you do have an "expander ball", it is just different than the one RCBS and Redding provide. You are welcome to do so, but it's not as if the function doesn't need to be performed. You said as much, yourself. Why do you prefer that method?Quote:
Originally Posted by USSR
Personally, I prefer not to use my bullets as an expander ball. I prefer to use an expander ball as an expander ball and prefer an expander ball over a "punch or knife sharpener". If I were performing a manual case neck expansion, I would use my Sinclair expander mandrel, held in its die. This yields VERY uniform neck interior dimensions over the entire length of the neck. The die/mandrel are press-mounted so variations due to tipping (typical of a manual operation) do not occur.
If I am loading for one of my bolt guns, the expander ball is removed from the die....the last thing I want is something hitting the mouth of my nicely chamber formed case! Unless youre are denting up case mouths like say out of an AR, why use it? I dont.
John
I size my 308 in an RCBS small base die, and I replaced the RCBS decapping assembly with a somebody's carbide version.
It works great. No compliants.
The difference being, that with an expander ball coming out of the case body and thru the neck, you are pulling on the neck and shoulder after you have resized the case. Using a tapered tool to remove a dent in the neck is done prior to resizing the case, and does not impact the neck or shoulder in any way. I also have an expander mandrel, and I suppose in a severely "dinged" neck, I could resize the neck with a small bushing and then use the mandrel on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Mills
Don
So, tell me, why not use the precision machined mandrel you already own? Why use a manually operated, (tapered?) punch or knife sharpener, or worst of all, your bullets?
Mike,
Well, 99.9% of my cases do not have "dings" in the neck. While there has been alot of internet "chatter" about the need to neck size brass when using a bushing without an expander ball, my experience in reloading for 1,000 yard F Class competition has found this simply not to be the case. And, if any accuracy problems were to arise, I have to believe they would show up on target at 1,000 yards.
Don
Still, you didn't answer my question. When you need to expand a neck, why not use the expander mandrel you own instead of the manual method you use.
Sorry, Mike, but I thought I explained that 99.9% of my cases don't need to be expanded at all. For example, in .308, LC Match brass comes out of my FN SPR with neck OD's of about .346". I resize the case body with a Redding body die, and then use my Redding competition necksizing die to reduce the neck OD to .337", which gives me about the .001" of neck tension that I want. It's the rare case (no pun intended) that has a dinged up neck, and using the tapered tool is simply quicker and opens up the leading edge of the neck to allow for using the bushing die properly on the neck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Mills
Don
Okay, message received - minimal usage, Flared neck perceived as benefit.
Because this is the CSP web site I was thinking more in the context of auto-loading rifles (AR, M1, M1A,...) where dinged case necks are quite common. Also, the original poster is obviously needing to do neck sizing quite frequently, as he is sick of it.
This differs from your F-class shooting. Perhaps you've taken us off on an F-class tangent? Perhaps the wind blew us off target. :)
When I have a dinged neck, I just "round it out" with an RCBS expander ball (just in/out, not size it at all), and then use the Redding neck dies as normal.
Actually I am neck sizing 6MM, 308 and 223 for bolt rifles. I have found if I dont lube the neck it will squeek and chatter and I am afraid it is distorting the case size too.
You guys are way deeper into accuarcy than I am as I am just playing. My goal is hitting the 6 inch gong at 500 yards which isn't that hard. I would like to hit an egg eventually but my rifles are factory.
I assume after reading these comments I can get a neck sizing die with different bushings that allow me to not have to use an expander ball and will allow me to vary the ID of the neck diameter.
Thanks for the help.
Yes. Redding makes both FL bushing dies (Type S) and necksizing bushing dies. I use a necksizing die in conjunction with a body die, so I am basically full length resizing my brass in two distinct operations. The nice thing about the Redding necksizing bushing die is, you can easily resize just a portion of the neck if you so wish. And, if you use the Redding TiN (titanium) bushings, you do not need to use any lube at all for the neck (inside AND outside). Bushing size needed will vary according to brass make (different thicknesses) and amount of neck tension desired. In .30 caliber, I have .332" (for Winchester brass), .334", .336", and .338" (LC Match and Hornady Match brass). Hope that helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrinerBros
Don
Yes that helps, alot. Thanks. I have a ton of LC brass but currently I am using Remington brass in the 308 size. Any idea on the bushing size or do I just experiment?Quote:
Originally Posted by USSR
"...running a brush into the neck of my rifle cases when sizing them..." For what? Lubing the inside of the case mouth involves sticking a case mouth into your lube pad when the expander button gets sticky. No brushes are required.
Measure the neck diameter of a loaded cartridge using your Remington brass, subtract .001" from that number, and order that bushing size.Quote:
Originally Posted by GrinerBros
Don