This gun is no longer legal. I don't object.

Watch the firing of a twelve-foot long shotgun with a two-inch bore. Pretty nifty.

Maybe legal to own but not to use.

A major flyway near me, Hawk Mountain, was where the locals used to climb to the peak every fall to blast away at thousands of migrating reptors for shooting sport.

A nice woman bought the entire mountain back around the 1920s or 30s, hired groundskeeper, armed, and the place is now a wonderful area to hike; it intersects the Appalachian Trail.

Some of the stuff from the old days was pretty destructive.

http://www.notoriouslyconservative.com/

I do object, a .22 can be pretty destructive.

Cary

That was a different era in history. Market hunting kept many a family going, and that's what the punt gun was made for.

Incidentally, it's illegal to hunt with, but some of these things were muzzle-loaders and they're still legal to own and shoot for the fun of it.

dale

Harrah's in Reno had one and pictures of it in use. I too do not have any problem with the gun as it is only a piece of metal and henceforth no different than any other piece of metal, neither good nor bad but simply inanimate.

I do however feel strongly about conservation and believe that those who poach or mis-treat animals wild or domestic should be severely punished.

KTK
OFC

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Originally Posted by Ken The Kanuck

Harrah's in Reno had one and pictures of it in use. I too do not have any problem with the gun as it is only a piece of metal and henceforth no different than any other piece of metal, neither good nor bad but simply inanimate.

I do however feel strongly about conservation and believe that those who poach or mis-treat animals wild or domestic should be severely punished.

KTK
OFC

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Frankly with all the talk of avian flu I'm not so sure the days when "the skys were darkened" with passenger pigeons were all that great :D

Jim

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Originally Posted by JGaynor

Frankly with all the talk of avian flu I'm not so sure the days when "the skys were darkened" with passenger pigeons were all that great :D

Jim

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I hear you Jim, but I think the talk is about " swine flu " and the gun might help eradicate the herds of pigs darkening the prairie.:D

KTK

Consider that the depletion of waterfowl AND the passenger pigeon was NOT the fault of hunters. Rather it was due to resturants serving the birds. I would class the people using "punt guns" in the same category as those factory workers providing the material for your steak dinner, pork chops, and Chicken McNuggets. The supply was thought to be endless, until it wasn't there anymore.

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Originally Posted by John Sukey

Consider that the depletion of waterfowl AND the passenger pigeon was NOT the fault of hunters. Rather it was due to resturants serving the birds. I would class the people using "punt guns" in the same category as those factory workers providing the material for your steak dinner, pork chops, and Chicken McNuggets. The supply was thought to be endless, until it wasn't there anymore.

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John, I disagree with you're not holding the hunters accountable. That's like saying that drug users are in the wrong, but not the drug dealers.

Though in their defense, I'd say that such massive amounts of slaughter helped them to earn some money, in the days when most folks, especially in rural areas, might be considered somewhat impoverished by today's standards.

Only recently, I found an item in an history book, referring to factories of the late 1800s, where power transmission pulleys were arranged above the factory floors to get power to each work station. This item mentioned in passing that the belts for the pulley systems commonly were made of buffalo hide!

In those days, people thought, "There are so many, they'll be around forever".

Up at Hawk Mountain, the locals did not shoot to eat; they shot just for sport and left mounds of dead hawks and all sorts of raptors around the mountain top.

In Italy, during bird migrations, the Italians today still take to the mountain tops and blast away, just for "sport", leaving the birds, including songbird flocks arriving from Africa, to rot on the ground.

Regards,

Punt Guns were not for sport, but for food market.
Besides birds hatch everyday and fuzzy critters make new ones every day.
And they taste good :)

Cary

Irv Joffe had one of those big bore cannons on the wall in his shop in Upper Darby, Pa. It was a percussion gun and looked like it would punish on both ends. That was back when you could buy a Lee Enfield for 14 bucks and a Jungle Carbine for 25. I bought a couple of trapdoor Springfield 45/70s there real cheap too. (as well as a lot of other stuff)

The time of the Punt Guns were over a hundred years ago, and using buffalo was like using plastic today, it was in everything just like real wood, whale oil, baby seal skin and elephant ivory. Oh I miss the old days. But I still set my own valves and points .

Cary

Louis, Please don't call the people who shot birds for market, Hunters.
Using your standard, the folks in the meat packing plant who smack cows in the skull with large hammers, would qualify as hunters too.
OR the folks who decapitate chickens for Col Sanders. (chickens are birds)

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Originally Posted by Ken C.

Irv Joffe had one of those big bore cannons on the wall in his shop in Upper Darby, Pa. It was a percussion gun and looked like it would punish on both ends. That was back when you could buy a Lee Enfield for 14 bucks and a Jungle Carbine for 25. I bought a couple of trapdoor Springfield 45/70s there real cheap too. (as well as a lot of other stuff)

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Ken, Joffe's gun shop was almost legendary in this area. My brother patronized it and I used to go in to drool over the stuff he offered. Years later, Suburban Armory in Darby told me they were using Joffe's chief gunsmith.

However my first deer rifle as a .303 Enfield, $17, from Goldberg, either in in 69th Street or in the city. Sadly I passed up on the carbine version; at $25 it was kind of rich for a college kid. Still have the rifle.
Regards,
Louis of PA

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Originally Posted by Louis of PA

Ken, Joffe's gun shop was almost legendary in this area. My brother patronized it and I used to go in to drool over the stuff he offered. Years later, Suburban Armory in Darby told me they were using Joffe's chief gunsmith.

However my first deer rifle as a .303 Enfield, $17, from Goldberg, either in in 69th Street or in the city. Sadly I passed up on the carbine version; at $25 it was kind of rich for a college kid. Still have the rifle.
Regards,
Louis of PA

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Louis, I began going to Irvs shop in the 50s, when he was located at 52nd & Larchwood (Maybe Larchmont, memory is failing) in the city. Irv was a terrific guy. Always kind and helpful. I still use the Lyman bullet sizer I bought off him 2nd hand, and I continued dealing there after he had to move out to Upper Darby because of the mounting crime problems in the old location. I have many fond memories of traveling up to his store from South Jersey and doing business with Irv. When JFK was shot Irv was featured on one of the Phila. TV channels debunking the theory being tossed around at that time regarding the speed with which the 3 shots were fired by Oswald. Irv later was strongly at odds with the rest of the Jewish community when they began favoring new gun control measures. He remarked to me "Ken, the Democrats are like parrots, one says a lie, and the rest repeat it like it was gospel. I have no respect for the Rabbi any longer."
Irv, old friend, nothing has changed in the world of 2009.

carym2a
wow amazing!! dead birds reproducing!! please send pictures

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Originally Posted by John Sukey

Louis, Please don't call the people who shot birds for market, Hunters.
Using your standard, the folks in the meat packing plant who smack cows in the skull with large hammers, would qualify as hunters too.
OR the folks who decapitate chickens for Col Sanders. (chickens are birds)

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I think it's hard, if not impossible, to always judge people of those days by our standards today. Though I would've always been disgusted by the slaughter at Hawk Mountain when hawks of all types were shot but nothing was used. Our generation was raised by our depression-era parents to despise waste of any kind. And I'm sure they held that attitude even before the depression.

My daughter lives in a home that was once owned by a black slave holder, in Virginia. In fact she has met some descendents of those slaves.

The disconnects with today's values can make one crazy.

My point about the punt gunners is that, perhaps those people did not own a farm or business to provide them and their family with a regular livelihood, and so resorted to such activities merely to keep going. And it would have probably been seasonal work only.

It comes down to specific circumstances.

Regards

seagoatami
That is amazing.
Hang around , you might learn something.:)

Cary

Louis,

I been to Hawk Mountain. What a place! It is a ridge of pure white quartzite, hard as diamond and beautiful stone. The raptors like the updraft off it, it makes for EZ travel on their way south.

I can't imagine why anyone would call it sport to ambush those beautiful, useful, inedible birds with a giant shotgun.

My own thought is its a tossup, ban the weapon or ban the behavior. Maybe the third way is to educate people to show some respect for the living creatures of this world and not kill them unless you've got a good reason. that goes for humans too.

rant, rant

jn

Just a correction, Punt guns were used to kill flocks of migratory birds, not raptors. They were called punt guns because they used the punt, (boat) as a platform, somewhat like a cannon mounted on a tank. There was no way in heck that you could ever fire one from the shoulder and not need urgent medical attention after the fact.

+100 John

Cary

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Originally Posted by John Sukey

Just a correction, Punt guns were used to kill flocks of migratory birds, not raptors. They were called punt guns because they used the punt, (boat) as a platform, somewhat like a cannon mounted on a tank. There was no way in heck that you could ever fire one from the shoulder and not need urgent medical attention after the fact.

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Sorry John, you got it all wrong.

Please note that punt guns were used in early CFL games before technology advanced to the point where a football could be kicked high enough to go over the cross bar. Later when the Americans started to play the game they imported the Canadian kicking boots ( with the kickers still inside of them ).

At that time in order to find a use for all these surplus punting guns, many were converted to duck guns.

Feel free to ask me any historical questions whenever you like John, for I am here to serve.:bow:

KTK
OFC

Ken, I knew you would come up with the correct solution. You always seem to do so at the right moment during a different points of views being posted. I for one appreciate your wisdom and total recall of facts in such matters.