I just purchase a Winchester model 1910, and need loading data for the .401 round.
If anyone is loading this caliber, I surely would appreciate data.
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I just purchase a Winchester model 1910, and need loading data for the .401 round.
If anyone is loading this caliber, I surely would appreciate data.
The 401 Winchester has a bullet diameter of .406 to .407 for both jacketed and cast. Max. case length of 1.500 and trim lenth of 1.495. Max over all lenth with bullet is 2.005.
200 gr. jacketed sp.
Unique 13.0 grs---1597fps 15.2 max---1811fps
2400 22.0 grs---1718fps 24.7 max---1915fps.
240 gr. cast
IMR-4227 24.0 grs---1506 27.5 max---1968 Accuracy load.
This data is from the Lyman 45 Edition and the data for the 2400 powder might be a bit high as 2400 has been changed a little bit since this was printed. hth
Bill H;what are you using for cases? Years back we made them out of Win 30/30,lot of hassle to cut rims,extactor grooves,length and then blow case out.Then years ago when the 7.62x39 Russian guns and ammo started to show up in the U.S. I latched on to all the empty cases I could find,they are perfect for the .401WSL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill H
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...compared-1.jpg
Cases left to right, 30/30,7.62x39 mm Russian,7.62x39 case formed out,Factory .401 case and a 7.62x39 formed & loaded as a .401 WSL. I designed and made a die/tool that forms the 7.62x39 Russin case into a .401 WSL case in one simple step,if anybody wants the procedure I will post instructions,pics and etc.
RayP.
Thanks for the information. I have loading manuals going back to about 1955, but no info in them.
I have no cases yet. I seem to remember that either Old Western or Buffalo Arms had them, but haven't looked yet. Just bought the rifle yesterday, and had no prior plans to do so, just couldn't pass up what looked like a bargain at a gun show.
Have a model 1905 in .35 WSL, and got cases from Buffalo Arms, made from .38 special. Never loaded for it, as factory ammo is not hard to find, although a little pricy.
Only box of .401 ammo I could find at the gunshow was priced at $95.00, and I am not paying that to shoot it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayP.
Great job, Ray.:super: I would be interested in seeing your die/tool. Why not just run it through the 401 sizer/expander?:beerchug:
Jim
Had 4 pics,data pages,etc,that I was just about ready to download and Microsoft or Vista knocked me off line and I lost it,tomorrow I'll try again,it's late now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
RayP.
Excuse blurry pic,only one like this I have(taken yrs. ago,1st. I used camera.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...xpblurry-1.jpg
I designed this exspanding stem to exert as little pressure downward as possible with the major pressure being exerted outward,I found a single expander button tends to crush cases somewhat
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...derspecs-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...nspacing-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...compared-1.jpg
The diff. in rim diam. has not caused any problems in the rifles we shoot,if you meaured several factory cases you would find they are far from being uniform.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...neckdies-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ructions-1.jpg
There are 3 or 4 more notes concerning case annealig and so on,but I think this is enough to get the general idea,I've made cases for all the WSL rifles,use 32/20 for the .32 WSL,38spl for the .35 WSL,357Max. for the .351 WSL,had to go to 357Mag when 357 Max. got fairly rare/costly.
RayP.
Wow! Nice work, Ray. Did you do the machining yourself? Reason I ask is I would like to know how you made the conical buttons. A tool post grinder?
Great work, my friend. I admire people who can sit down and get a job done and done right. Well thought out and darned well executed!
Semper Fi,
Jim
I have an old Atlas 6x24 belt driven lathe(probably 30's vintage)ground some lathe bits for the diff. size shapes,finshed off with emery cloth and polished with crocus cloth.For a note on making cases that require cutting an extractor groove and reducing rim diam. such as 38spl to 35WSL,I took a piece of flat bearing race and ground it to shape that makes boths cuts at same time,I started doing things like this when I was a kid during WWll,9m/m ammo was hard to get,I made cases out of 38spl. cases.(wish my old pc would have had a spell checker,never knew I had so many typos).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
RayP.
.401 Winchester SL
Ammunition for this elderly round is getting very difficult to find. It is one of those odd cartridges that you cannot reform from another cartridge until recently. Consequently you find old ammunition for $50.00 to $65.00 per box of 20 and are tickled to death when you find it.:D
Follow these instructions for ammunition.
Contact C&H tool and Die and tell them I sent you (Waxpushya) which means the legendary one LOL
Shell out about $170.00 for their kit which includes dies for the 401 and expander dies for the cases you will use and a bullet swaging die.
Go 2 Midway and get yourself 200 new cases for 7.62x39 (I prefer the Winchesters)
Order some .410 bullets Semi Jacketed 200 grain bullets with a canalurel (I prefer Speer)
I am assuming you have a RCBS Rockchucker or similar compound press (You either buy one first or buy one last)
Using the bullet swage die, swage all of your bullets down to .405 dia. Lubing them helps unless you have biceps like Popeye
Then use the three expander balls expand your case mouths. Lube the inside of the case necks. The last expander is the .406 the case with the die normally supplied in the 401 reloading set
Anneal the cases (Propane torch pan of water) there some good instructions elsewhere on annealing cases.
Length size them to 1.500 and if they come out a little short from the original resizing process don't sweat it . At least go over the necks with your L.E. Wilson deburing tool.
Then load some cases 10% below the table and go fire form them. Load tables are available elsewhere.
Then reload them as keepers.
This whole business costs about what 5 boxes of 20 cost on the open market currently so after you shoot 100 rounds you broke even.
Then have fun with it. :beerchug:
A much better choice for brass is Starline 414 Super Mag. Simply reduce the rim diameter, deepen the extractor groove and trim to length. Downside is that Starline only sells them in lots of 250 or more for about $0.50 ea. You need to weigh cheap and good enough, against more expensive and perfect.
As for loads, I have found H4227 to be the pefect powder, using essentially a full case for all bullets weighing up to about the 220grs (I use a 210gr cast sized to 0.408"). With H4227, you get max MV and reliable cycling of the action. I tried faster powders like Unique and Blue Dot, and discovered a strange phenomenom: too little powder and the action will not cycle; too much, and the same thing happens. I believe that with the faster powder, using too little creates too little gas and pressure, while too much, causes the pressure curve to expand the brass against the chamber walls a bit too early. In between and it's just right. I stick with H4227.
You can use 41 Mag dies.
Does anybody have the dimensions (diameter and length) of the original 200- and 250-grain factory bullets for this round? I'm trying to find out what weight bullets the French used in their M1910's in WWI.
Kudos to Andy for the instructions. Easy process. Loaded with 23g H4227 and a 200gr FMJ. Works like a champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
Starline Brass has Grendel basic brass available at $180/250 cases. It is a very easy conversion to .401WSL from that brass, lube them well and run through a .41 mag sizer die then trim them about 0.050". These cases are not annealed and have small rifle primer pockets, I have had no issues using this brass.
OP is 9 years old.
Graf's lists Bertram .401 SL brass at $44.99 per 20.