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His Majesty the King with General Pershing inspecting US troops, presumably brigaded with British troops as they've been given Short Lee-Enfields.
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Everybody seems to have a .45 as well (or at least the mag pouch for it)
They were probably either the 27th and 30th Divisions as they were sent to fight along side Commonwealth troops in Spring 1918. Could seem they all have a 1911 Colt Handgun because only the officers were at the inspection.
Dimitri
I see they kept their M1907 slings....
D Coy, 6th Durham Light Infantry in the trenches near Ypres on 24 May 1915
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This is my wife's great grandfather, William Walls who was a fatal casualty at Loos in 1915. He was really too old to enlist but he lied about his age to join up. He left his wife and several children behind.
WALLS, WILLIAM Private 14646 27/09/1915 aged 46 West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) United Kingdom Panel 39 and 40. LOOS MEMORIAL
Regards
Peter.
The remains of 20 British First World War soldiers discovered near Arras, Northern France. Archaelogists unearthed the corpses, which were lying arm in arm, at a construction site for a BMW factory. The men, who were killed on the 9th April 1917 were from the 10th Battalion, The Lincolnshire Regiment, known as the "Grimsby Chums". Picture courtesy of The Independent 20th June 2001.
The Grimsby Pals, who were part of 101 Brigade, 34th Division had followed the Cambs Suffolks into the battle on the 9th April 1917. The two Battalions invariably fought together. Indeed on the 1st day of the Battle of the Somme, the Cambs Suffolks had followed the Grimsby Pals into battle - Both Battalions suffering horrendous caualties.
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WWI British and Empire infantry is my particular interest, but I believe your average, 'box-stock' American infantry O.R.s & N.C.O.s carried both 1911s and rifles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mk VII
Those blokes are not officers since they are wearing canvas leggings and webbing. American officers wore what Pershing has on.
It is interesting that no shoulder patches are visible. Marines possibly?
I believe the soldiers pictured are either members of the US 27th (NY NG) or 30th Division (NC,SC,TN NG). From their arrival in France in May 1918 both divisions (less their artillery) were attached to the British Army for additional training. Subsequently assigned to the II US Army Corps they fought with the British 2nd or 4th Army until the armistice. With the exception of their personal side arms both units exchanged their US M1903 rifles for the British SMLE rifle (later known as the No 1 Mk III). They retained their US cartridge belts,etc. The cartridge belts shown (with a pistol pouch attached) are M1918 Cartridge Belts (Mounted). These would be issued to infantryman also armed with pistols (i.e. NCO, honor guard).
A good source of additional information regarding US forces that fought with the British Army is "Borrowed Soldiers" by Mitchell A. Yockelson, 2008.
Are those Long Lees stacked against the trench wall at right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mk VII
Victor
"Always carry a firearm east of Aldgate, Watson."
Yes - Long Lees still appear in photos of front line troops as late as 1917. They seem to have been retained by some units out of choice.
The Kiwis had Long Lees at Gallipoli.
Yes, this was a TF battalion.
The 1/8 King's Liverpool Regiment after a trench raid.
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A photo which I picked up off the ground while the contents of a deceased NRA member's chalet were being put into the dumpster the other day. The caption says Royal Marines XX after just winning the Inter-Services XX Match at Bisley, Tuesday 13th July, 1954 - first time for 28 years
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Interesting photo for a couple of reasons, not related to Enfields either! Notice how some of the older ones have war medals while the younger ones don't. And the Battledress (BD's) jackets (or blouses). Some are the old wartime closed neck types left open with a shirt and tie underneath while one lone Marine has his wartime BD jacket closed up to the top while others, like the Warrant Officer, front row, holding rifle have the 'made-to-be-open' topped BD jackets.
In fact, these little foul-weather sheds are still there, at the rear of the century range
The cartridge belts appear to be of the type issued to cavalry units. Horse cavalry was issued both an 03 rifle and a 1911 pistol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mk VII
Yes, I noticed the lone man with the buttoned-up jacket. Also visible are varying stud patterns in the boots and two who appear to have the Boots, C.W.W. with the screwed-on moulded rubber soleQuote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Perhaps the Marine withe the blouse buttoned up all the way forgot his tie or got a stain on it?
We did use BOOTS, Cold wet weather (Boots CWW) occasionally, such as adventure training. But we all called them BOOTS, cobbley wobbley! Same as Shirts, KF indicating Kakhi Flannell. Known to us all as SHIRTS, Kollar Fixed!
Peter, do you remember 'Boots, A.B.' and 'Boots, G.P.'? As different as night and day weren't they?
I remember BOOTS, ankle, black (Boots, AB)as the old studded 'ammo boots' we wore while we were apprentices but into man service, we slowly changed to BOOTS, DMS with rubber soles. In Australia we wore studded boots until we got issued with BOOTS, combat, which were calf high and someone told me that they contained a steel or alloy plate moulded within the rubber sole (is this correct?) to prevent the VC and NVA pungee spikes!
Back in England we carried on using the old BOOTS DMS for ages until the mid 80's until the first BOOTS, Combat, High started to come on stream. After about a million tries at getting it right.............................
Boots............. a classic example of if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
I put a pair ammo boots, that I'd had re soled, heeled and studded in Australia before I left onto Ebay a couple of years ago and got the princely sum of £20. They went to a drill instructor at a recruit depot!
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Picture of my friend's grandfather. He is the soldier on the left, Cpl (A.Sgt) Frank Shipperlee, Royal Engineers. The caption on the back says; "Cologne, April 1920".
All appear to be carrying SMLE Mark III*s, but the perculiar thing is they are sporting 1903 bayonets. I have been unable to get any background on that fact or the reason for it. They obviously did not trust Frank with a bayonet.
His medals - Pip, Squeak and Wilfred, are on display at his grandson's home
Whilst at RMCS, Shrivenham, I fell in with some boffins from APRE Colchester, mainly because of the shaply lady scientist in the team. However, the subject of "The Boot" came up. There had been a lot of research and experimentation and they had come to the conclusion that the best solution for the European theatre was a Jack-Boot that gave the best NBC solution. However the Gen Staf and Politicos were never going to allow British squaddies to wear a "Nazi Jack Boot", so the miserable saga of the Brit boot continues almost to this day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I bet these blokes who were part of the British Occupation Army would have been very interesting to talk to. I think that the bayonets is all to do with the fact that they were Corps Troops. A bit like the REME where you wouldn't want to trust them with a big knife...... or even a REAL gun for that matter! I wouldn't let some blokes have a compass!
I used to know an ex RASC Warrant Officer, CQMS Read, who was responsible for demilitarising the German Fire Brigades in the Ruhr after the war. He used to tell me that they had to start at the very basics ground again. Even removing their original fire engines (generally worn out, due in part to the nocturnal arsonistic activities, a trait of the visiting RAF) and supplying old Bedford QL's fire-engines to let them know in no uncertain terms that thereafter, they were a civillian organisation. He said that the old militaristic hierachy was so ingrained in, even in the fire brigades, that it was like pulling teeth!
I got him to put it all on cassette
I don't know if the GPs were spike proofed or not like the jungle boots the 'Septics' issued. I can tell you Dunlop made the soles I had on mine - and the ABs as well.
For me at least, the GPs were really comfortable to wear - even for days at a time.
You're right there. The Australian GP's were very comfortable. We had jungle boots too, made by BATA, a Czech or Hungarian company! I don't think our jungle boots had a steel or alloy protector in the sole though. They didn't last long. Just a couple of weeks at best and just days on ops.
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"from your affectionate brother Will" [grandma's brother]
Probably the 19th London Regt (St Pancras Rifles). The rifles appear in the original print to be Metfords with the cleaning rod and the eight-round magazine.
Is there a Tadworth camp or is it actually TIDWORTH Camp. It's got to be Tidworth because of the thick mud....... MANY Centurions soon became mud-bound there. Totally bogged in. Only sheer brute strength from two recovery tanks...., one acting as a reserve ground anchor..., would drag them out. Tractive effort from the bogged in tracks just made matters worse.
I remember being out there on one occasion, with the two recovery tank crews. Fed up, been at it for a couple of hours, up to our waists in mud and sxxxe when the EME (he's in overall charge of the workshops) rolled up in his clean clothes, shiney shoes and land-rover and asked the recovery Sergeant why we weren't wearing our berets (hats) and as a bit of an afterthought, commented that we'd been out there since first light and '......aren't they making a bit of a meal of it?' Then suggested that we get ourselves cleaned up a bit...... The recovery Sergeant, Taffy Bills, a diplomat to the end mentioned that we were a few men short for the job really. Maybe the EME and the driver, Dave Findlay might like to lend a hand. He declined!
Oh yes, got sidelined thinking about the joys of Tidworth as a very young Craftsman on recovery duty. It MUST be Tidworth
There was a Tadworth camp, in Surrey
Blimey Mk7, that was quick! Just remembered the EME's name too. Capt Hodgson. A week or so later, someone accidentally reversed the fitters old, clapped out Half Track into his land rover and crushed it against the wall of the workshop. Happy days
How great a picture of this would be... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Even funnier was the fact that at the rear of the REME half tracks (we had them until 1972 or so), were the winch pulley roller thinggies that allowed the winch cable to swing left/right/up, over the top to the jib etc etc. They were marked with the winch makers plate which I think was WITICHA WINCH Co or something like that. And very neatly, deeply reverse embossed into the stoved in door and rear panels of the Land Rover were the words - in reverse WITICHA WINCH Co. USA
Could it have been Wichita Winch Co, As in Wichita Kansas? Just a thought.
Donzi
Could be Donzi as these were Lend Lease half tracks, left hand drive and all steel with big steel box bodies on the rear. They were VERY cold in the winter.
If I remember correctly, the actual winch was mounted below the front bumper bar that was kinked upwards in the middle to clear the winch drum. The cable could be played out left, centre or right or under the vehicle to the rear, where it could be played out similarly. I took my track laying vehicle licence in one folllowing a bit of confusion as to whether it was actually a track laying vehicle! VERY versatile bit of kit. We replaced them with a fitters 432 vehicle (Your equivalent of the M113 vehicle) called a 434 in England....or as the crunchies used to call them, a 43-twice.
But Armourers lived in the back of an old Bedford QL Armourers lorry. Ours was 77YC16 or later a specialised Bedford RL lorry 36 ER 24. I wonder where they are now
They appear to be a guard detail and as such the Non-Commissioned Officer (the Corporal) in charge does not attach his bayonet because he does not actually "stand guard". He keeps his bayonet sheathed but in the event that one of his guards should not be able to stand his watch, the NCO will stand it for him until a relief guard can be found.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enfieldlock
BEAR
using the cup discharger with a bound-up P-17
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RN sailors and Marines pointing Ross rifles at a German destroyers crew during the scuttling of the High Seas Fleet in Scapa Flow in Nov. 1919
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A photo I show to collecting newbies who are after a "mint, unissued early war dated WW1 SMLE"......
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There is a worse picture somewhere that shows a corresponding heap of discarded webbing and personal effects about 20ft high....
Just think, those are the rifles that they kept! Its remarkable that any survive w/o replacement parts, let alone in "newish" condition. Post war rebuilding programs were very "efficient".
Its one thing that makes collecting arms of the "losing" side rather "easier", between the war trophies, and the warehouses full of "obsolete" arms that never received overhaul, matching and "correct" weapons seem more likely. ( At least until careless import/exporters and Bubba start messing w/ 'em!)
approx. fifty years old :dancingbanana:
Found this one at internet. Australian infantery at Ypres.
Regards
Gunner
The photo of the RAOC (Royal Army Ordnance Corps) Armourers with their work cut out remind me of a large cache of weapons found in Iraq recently. About 4,100 Lee Enfields, 6 Vickers and 10 Lewises but if you thought these were bad, then the ones found in a cache in Basra were even worse........... The middle eastern armies suffer from a lack of oil judging from the, er...., woeful...., yes, that's the word I'm looking for..., condition of their weapons.
Note that the censor has obliterated the RAOC cap badges of the Armourers
There's a battalion's worth of rifles in that picture and the men that carried them were no doubt mostly dead. Extremely muddy too, and all about equally so, makes me think this was salvage work after a major engagment, Passchendaele comes to mind, but it could be any one of many of course. Were this just normal salvage work I don't think we'd see that many in one place, as the longer they sat like that, the worse condition they would be in, so I'd expect efforts were made to clean them up pretty quickly normally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbox
The edge of another pile in the background.