My first M1.. it's a 4.5M IHC (here come the Q's)

Hi M1 rifle folks,

I finally got my first Garand - a 4.5M IHC gun that was re-imported by Federal Ordnance. So there's question #1 - any ideas on where this thing was before FED ORD brought it back home?

The gun is a mystery in several ways.. The barreled action, op rod, gas cylinder, swivels & ferrules are all in great shape and showing 95% or better finish. On the other hand, the bolt, trigger assembly and rear sight are almost devoid of finish.. fine shape, just little remaining Park.

All of the parts that bear stampings have -IHC stamps. The barrel is marked 7 53 and was made by LMR. And let me tell you, it's got some major wear near the muzzle.. no rifling at all for the last 3/8" or so. The rest of the bore looks pretty decent, though.

Trying to grasp why a gun with such decent finish on the action would have such a worn-out barrel.. and if it's just been reparked, why didn't they re-do the bolt, trigger housing etc - if they were trying to dress up an old dog?

Facts, opinions and thoughts, please.. what do you know about Federal Ord. imports of Intl' Harvester M1 rifles?

Thanks and thanks again,
-L

It could have been "loaned" to any of our allied countrie then returned to U.S. via Fed. Ord. importers.

The most likely cause for no rifling at the last 3/8" of the barrel is excessive cleaning with a cleaning rod coupled with improper use of a cleaning rod. The rifle may have been used at ceremonies firing blanks and left uncleaned long enough for the inside of barrel to deteriorate. Whatever country it was in may have used corrosive primer cartridges.

The rifle could have been used for training purposes excessively and thus shows excessive wear. IHC rifles are in high demand, esp. if all parts are IHC.

Hi TM(G?),

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Originally Posted by tmark

The most likely cause for no rifling at the last 3/8" of the barrel is excessive cleaning with a cleaning rod coupled with improper use of a cleaning rod.

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That was one thought, but I was also wondering if it could have been counterbored.. though this seems unlikely based on the proximity of the M1 gas port, and I can find no evidence of machine marks.

Would be interesting to gauge the TE (I lack the correct gauge) and see how it checks against the level of muzzle loss. Perhaps she was cleaned to death - now what a damned shame that would be! :ugh:

Well since you now have the IHC, you will just need a Winchester, H&R, and Springfield Armory. You might want to pick up a couple of books also.

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Originally Posted by mparsons

Well since you now have the IHC, you will just need a Winchester, H&R, and Springfield Armory. You might want to pick up a couple of books also.

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For now, just knowing a little more about the FED ORD imports would suffice. And really, as tempting as it is, collecting M1 rifles is about the last thing I need to become involved with.

More than anything, I just want a decent shooter.. which brings up another question.

Is it OK to just install a new GI-spec barrel, re-park the worn items and call it fine? Am I screwing anything up by removing what I believe to be the original barrel - clunker that it is?

It's an import and all, so I don't expect it to have much collector value.

-L

Rebarrel. Bell mouth muzzle will keep you out of the black most days.

L, I would test the IHC at the range to see how accurate she is. If it "keyholes", then I would replace the barrel but hold on to it until you find a replacement LMR barrel close to 7-53. A nonimport marked barrel will add to the resale value by an estimated $50 to $200 IMHO. Is the stock IHC with that slight indentation on the right side by the receiver heal? Is there a legitimate four digit date stamp (e.g. 7223) stamped inside the barrel channel? Do the front sight ears measure 7/8" apart? Since you want a shooter, I'd replace an inaccurate IHC barrel but hold on to it possibly to sell later as a collector item. Restorers will restore rare collectibles. HTH Thomas

A rifle import-marked doesn't drastically reduce the value of a firearm. In my experience, it lessens the value by a $100 to $200 in the real world of firearms sales. Log onto websites selling firearms privately and commercially. Import-marked USGI sell for the same or slightly less than nonimport-marked ones. Don't sell yourself short. Thomas

You could send the metal to DGR for reparking and a new barrel. He's the best out there.

Hey Thomas,

The stocks look pretty nice, but I don't think they are original.. The only number I find in the barrel channel of the buttstock is "27" stamped in an older style serif typeface.

There is also what looks like the remnants of a (P) on the forward underside of the pistol grip. I don't detect any of the other markings that I see called out on various M1 websites. Still not sure what kind of wood the stocks are cut from..

But I am completely with you on the 'see how she shoots - this stuff can be surprising. I'll take it out as-is and see what I can hit.. if it's reasonable, I might just leave it.

Like most guns, this old girl is still probably as or more accurate than I am. I'm mostly in it for the machinery, the history and the bang-o-fun.

Best,
-L

The bulk of the Fed-Ord Garands were repatriated from Korea, fewer from the Philippines...either way, they were generally run hard and put away wet LONG before they returned to the US. The muzzle condition you describe is typical (I've seen a LOT worse in other repats), and it probably isn't the only problem that barrel has (too many years of corrosive ammo). To tell you the truth, and IMHO....the less said about the late, unlamented Fed-Ord, the better...they're out of business for some darn good reasons. They generally brought rifles in from Korea, disassembled them, and put together what was cosmetically the best combination of the junk in the bins, and might or might not have function-fired them. That you got one that was even as close to correct as it is was pure happenstance, or else somebody else did some parts swapping later to get it fairly close.

FWIW you may want to send gun to Springfield Armory for their $75 repark treatment (includes return shipping). I just got my IHC gap letter back and it looks great. (I requested black parkerizing). HTH

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Originally Posted by buchkshot

FWIW you may want to send gun to Springfield Armory for their $75 repark treatment (includes return shipping). I just got my IHC gap letter back and it looks great. (I requested black parkerizing). HTH

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SA will re-park an M1 for $75 including return shipping? Really??

What did you ship them - a complete stocked rifle, a barreled action + parts, a fully disassembled set of parts?

FWIW the park on this gun is very dark.. not black, but really dark greenish gray on the parts that still have good finish. Not that light gray that I've seen a lot.

-L

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Originally Posted by Legendre

FWIW the park on this gun is very dark.. not black, but really dark greenish gray on the parts that still have good finish. Not that light gray that I've seen a lot.

-L

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Parkerizing (phosphating) produces a grey/black surface. Any other color is being created by the material (grease) trapped in the rough phosphated surface. A liberal application of a strong polar solvent like acetone or methyl ethyl ketone will turn your "green" Parked surface the same gray as the rest of the rifle!

How fitting that your first M1 is a Harvester ... a fellow named Legendre was one of the key people in the IHC M1 program. I interviewed him in about 1980.

Dont I see a LMR barrel for sale on this site presently??? If not now, there will be one. Make sure you get decent numbers no matter how many $ are involved. Changing Garand barrels from one US mfgr receiver to another is usually a breeze. The Australian/Century castings are some times a bit troublesome... PJH

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Originally Posted by heckinohio

Dont I see a LMR barrel for sale on this site presently??? If not now, there will be one. Make sure you get decent numbers no matter how many $ are involved. (...) PJH

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(Emphasis mine)

May I ask what you mean by 'decent numbers'? Are you referring to the stamped date of manufacture, muzzle / throat erosion figures or something else?

Thanks,
-L

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Originally Posted by bob seijas

How fitting that your first M1 is a Harvester ... a fellow named Legendre was one of the key people in the IHC M1 program. I interviewed him in about 1980.

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A strange coincidence, to be sure! Thanks for that info-bit.. I'll have to look into it.

It's an interesting name.. (frequently pronounced 'Leh-ZHAN', if one has never heard it spoken). In the most literal sense, it means "the gentry" or possibly "the gentlemen". But, it is generally understood (colloquially) to mean "the people" or "the men". Same basic root-word as in 'Gendarmerie'.. Or so I have been told.

Would you have a link to the article, by chance?

-L

(P.S. And to be totally clear - while I'm old, I'm not quite that old. Different guy, I assure you! :p )

In the first edition of the GARAND COLLECTORS ASSO. NEWSLETTER, Winter 1986, Bob Seijas wrote an article "CORNBINDER", which is all about the IHC. While Mr. Legendre is not mentioned in the article, some of the information may have been a result of Bobs 1980 interview with him. Vol 1 Number 1 is no longer available as a "back issue" from the GCA but they have published a hard cover called "The Best of the GCA Journals" it contains all the articles from the first three volumes., which would include the "Cornbinder" article. That is equivilent to 12 journals. It sells for $ 30.00 but when you consider one back issue of a Journal is $ 5.00, $ 30.00 for 12 is a well worth it. If you are not a member of the GCA you should consider joining. It will be money well spent.
Welcome! Click on the UNDERLINED word "welcome" to get to the GCA web page.

Legendre: Springfield Armory in Geneseo, IL, does a great parkerizing job on USGI M1 Garands. Call customer service and get the unique number they use to track the gun through the entire process. I sent the assembled rifle, less wood. Turn around time was about four weeks. Their gas cyinder finish is extraordinary. Have sent two rifles and was very pleased both times - on a par with the three Springfield Armory M1A's I am fortunate to own. HTH