Winchester Stock W/ Milled M2 cut

What can you all tell me about this stock? Oval cut low wood.Notice the ghost ord wheel next to the other one that is well difined.What do you make of that? Box is W.R.A. & the sling well has the W. P on inside of grip. No other markings on stock. What time frame are we talking about for the M2 cut?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...BoxGhost-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...OrdWheel-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../InsideP-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...05/M2Cut-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5/OrdBox-1.jpg

Is this a non-potbelly stock? There were non-pot belly M2 Winchester stocks, however they will only have the crossed cannon and no other cartouches. The other very real possibility is that that this is an original M2 stock with the ghost cross cannon being the original acceptance cartouche and the WRA over GHD in a box and stronger cross cannon was added later, maybe very recently.

To me, the WRA over GHD and stronger crossed cannon cartouche are much too strong and crisp to match up with the rest of the stock.

Is the forearm of the stock flat on the bottom like a typical WRA carbine stock?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...WideView-1.jpg
Thanks Mike and others that may chime in...Not a Pot Belly.. Flat bottom Winchester stock like most of them were..Here's a wider view of the stamps To me they look pretty consistant with the rest of the stock wear and appear shallower than the photos show...What would the P stamp on the inner grip indicate?

The "P" on the front of the pistol grip was applied at some point after it was initally accepted. It could have been during rebuild activities or it could have been applied during an inspection that didn't involve a rebuild. Basically it is an inspection mark to the best of my knowledge.

The "P" perhaps stamped after the Selector cut was made? So the stamping is wrong for it to be a correct Winchester non pot belly stock for an M2?

The "P" on the front of the pistol grip was not present when the carbine was originally manufactured. It just means that the carbine that was in that stock was subject to an inspection process sometime in its lifetime after its original acceptance. No huge sin, but not an original acceptance mark. Most collectors would rather have a stock that didn't have that marking. The "P" could have made either before or after the selector cut was made. I don't think there is any easy way to tell about which happed first.

How long is the front channel that supports the barrel? 3"or 4".

On some notes I have scratched down here,
I was of the understanding that the Boxed WRA over GHD with the Crossed Cannons next to it was used on early Winchester I cut Hi-wood stocks. Starting from the first production to about serial 1,153,591. The Oval cut Hi-wood came into use at or about 1,067,649. So there would be a overlap where both I cuts were being used up while the Oval cuts were being introduced. Also the UN-boxed W.R.A. over G.H.D. with the CC to the side could be found on later I cuts, Oval cut Hi-wood stocks and the early type III Lo-woods. At about 5,5 mil or so normally you'd expect to just see the CC only.

Pictures are of a early I cut Winchester Hi-wood,
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC01828-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC01843-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC01846-1.jpg
Note the cut recess at the top and bottom of the I cut in the oiler slot.
Now the oval oiler slot wouldn't have that type of recess cut in the top or bottom.
If your stamp is a real one, it's was most likely a type II Oval that has been cut down to a lo-wood and had the cut for the M2 added at that time or possibly later.
Look for any sign of it being cut down from a Hi-wood to a Lo-wood.
If there's no sign of it being cut down from a Hi-wood.....then someones bought a new stamp and been practicing.

hth

Charlie-painter777

Look closely at the picture I posted of the Boxed WRA/GHD and compare it to your's.

See?

Charlie-painter777

:bow:O.K. Painter, now I see what you mean. It took me a while looking back and forth, but now I got it. That kind of knowlege is good to know.....Frank:thup:

Jim, Your stock is a type 3 that went through a rebuild where the M2 switch was cut and the stock modifed to an M2. The P on the grip indicates that the carbine that was in the stock at the time was proof fired and the P stamped on the stock to note that. hth

As Charlie pointed out the cartouche is a bad fake, the ghost cc is real.
Pictures of fake cartouches and fake parts should be saved for future reference.

Scott

Thanks all for the replies... I have added additional pics.. Sorry for not posting them when I started the thread..Charlie-painter you nailed it! Quote: "If your stamp is a real one, it's was most likely a type II Oval that has been cut down to a lo-wood and had the cut for the M2 added at that time or possibly later. Look for any sign of it being cut down from a Hi-wood to a Lo-wood. If there's no sign of it being cut down from a Hi-wood.....then someones bought a new stamp and been practicing."
Guys there is a distinct texture change and a slight step at the place where the low wood mods took place. I have taped the scale with the 1 inch mark at the point of the slight step and the 4.5 inch mark falls approximately where the modification ended equaling approx 3.5 inches length as per Reisch. I also included a longer view to show the relationship of the stamps to the oval cut and grip. Better view of the M2 cut can also be seen. So this stock is looking like a Type 2 modded to low wood and M2 .. What would possibly explain the ghost ord wheel? Where would the stock fall on the desirability/collectability scale?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...05/Stock-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...wWoodMod-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...WoodModa-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...reChange-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lchannel-1.jpg

Hate to rain on any parade, but the fake cartouche brings the disirability and collectability way down. Several times I have stumbled across stocks that were degraded in value by someone getting creative with stamps. A worn stock with a slightly visible cartouche is worth much more than something that has been monkeyed with. The stock in question in this case has been cut down from highwood to low wood, then modified for M2 operation, then stamped with a fake cartouche. I don't think the WRA over GHD in a box ever was used on anything other than the highwood I cut stock so whoever stamped that fake stamp on a low wood oval cut stock didn't even make a logical fake. Up to the point of the fake stamp the stock had seen some interesting history.

I did not see it the first time, but you can see the real ghost unboxed W.R.A/G.H.D. stamp. As Mike said the fake stamps has messed up the value.

Scott

Thanks guys.. BAD! Fake it is! That's why I posted this.. I had my suspisions too when I saw the ghost markings..