Tom's M1

Hello, newby here, with the first of many i hope not-too-ignorant questions.

I purchased a Springfield Armory M1 in the late 80's. I finally bought Mr. Duff's Data book to see if i had a reweld. As it turns out so far as I can tell at this point it is not. The receiver was manufactured in December of '42 and has a nice even color similar to the rifles in Mr. Duff's web site, the clip latch is a square front and should be a round front, the bolt was made in '44, the barrel (a darker parkerizing) in '49 and so on. So it is a Springfiled M1, just not all made at the same time. My question is is it possible to find the correct parts, and where is the best place to start looking? Gun shows? I am not a collector but I am extremely detail oriented and would like this thing to be as correct as possible. Is it even necessary to be concerned about the year a part was made in? Does it affect a rifles value? Thanks.

My question is is it possible to find the correct parts - Yes

where is the best place to start looking?

1) Orion 7 Enterprises Inc.
2) M1 Garand gun
3) Scott Duff Publications & Historic Martial Arms: M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M1903, Krag, M1911A1
4)http://www.fulton-armory.com/

Is it even necessary to be concerned about the year a part was made in? Yes

Does it affect a rifles value? - Yes

It may cost you more than you expect - possible cheeper to buy a restoration off of Duff's web site

I was surprised about the cost but I am partial to this M1, the bore is in excellent condition and the rifle operates like a charm, and it is more accurate than i am. So I will cruise the sites you gave me and see if i can start collecting the parts, and maybe if i can get a smith to put them all together before i am too old to pick it up I will have something! Thanks again.

I would not mess with it.

There is history in all the changes that have been made to it.
Someday, people will collect "As-Is" M1s for the evidence of the rebuild programs and service under foreign governments.

Rebuilds are collectable now. Those late 40's rebuilds are very collectable. You may just have one. List all the parts you have, markings on the stock, etc... We all like looking at the stuff anyway, so don't think it would be boring to us. Or at least to me it wouldn't be. Pics are nice too. One thing to note is that you may very well collect all the correct numbered parts only to find out that the rifle now doesn't operate or shoot as well. If it were me, and that is what I always have to go on, I'd leave it just as it is. If you want to build a rifle, buy a barreled receiver and start with that. Unless this rifle that you now have is substantially correct (stock, op rod, rear sights, gas system) that's what I'd do. As it is, it sounds like you have a honey!

Thanks for the advice guys, i'll send some pics as soon as i can. One thing i did notice is there are no markings on the stock, even with refinishing (which i have done before) there should be some indentations. Oh yes, one thing i will do is find a correct rear sight, there is a National Match sight on it now, somebody wanted to get all his shots in a number 5 washtub.

A lot of times during overhaul stocks were sanded and there went all the nice expensive cartouches and proof marks. I've heard several times that guys would sometimes remove them themselves because they wanted to "pretty up" their rifles. I never noticed them in boot camp, where we carried Garand drill rifles for watches and of course drill, or when I got to fleet where we had M14s for security and mine watches and yearly qualifications. It never occured to me then to check out any marking, manufacture or whatnot, or the serial numbers. I think the .45s we had were Remington Rand (I do not remember any Colts) but they could have been Ithicas as well. And I THINK that the rifle assigned to me in boot camp was a Springfield. But I wouldn't bet on the farm on that. Now I wish I could go back, knowing what I know (which ain't much), and check them all out. Oh well, that's that. Anyway, post all the part numbers or discriptions of each part. Here's a pretty good online source that will help.

Battle Rifle: The M1 Garand

Hello again', the numbers I have found or can see are:

Reciever Drawing No. D28291 17, heat lot no.R40, there is a WW stamp near the front thru pin
Barrel side marking that I can see S-A-4-49,
Bolt Drawing No. D28287-19Sa, heat lot A-9
Op Rod D35382 SA
Trigger Housing 6528290-SA
Hammer looks like SA3554
Safety SA1
Follower looks like -8
I will send some pics as soon as I can. Many thanks.

Seems like it very well could be a nice post war rebuild. The op rod is definitely from that era. My '46 rebuild has it as well as the 65 series trigger housing. Your safety is probably an SA11.

Several years ago our club got in 5 carbines from the CMP. 1 or 2 had nice wood with original WWII cartouches on the wood. Our resident expert, an older, WWII vet, got himself some sandpaper and was determined to remove all of those pesky cartouches, the way he did it in WWII. I think cartouches were removed by troops as well as overhaul depots.

Thanks guys, the only thing that got me was why would an armorer install a N/M rear sight on a normal re-build? I was thinking somebody gathered some parts together and made hisself a rifle. Who knows? One of the 1's on the safety is probably covered up by the trigger guard.

Sounds like a beaut, Tom.
It could have picked up that NM sight anywhere. Heck, some platoon might have had a guy who shot it on a pick-up rifle team. There's lots of guys in service who shot competitively and weren't on a major team like the AMU or a Navy Fleet team. Or maybe some Sergeant appreciated finer things and added the sight to *his* weapon.

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Originally Posted by JaxTom

Hello, newby here, with the first of many i hope not-too-ignorant questions.

I am not a collector but I am extremely detail oriented and would like this thing to be as correct as possible. Is it even necessary to be concerned about the year a part was made in? Does it affect a rifles value? Thanks.

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I'm going to express a "Minority Opinion", but one that I feel needs to be articulated. You say you are "detail oriented"...if that is true, then be advised that your rifle is already more "correct" than anything you can do to it....so leave the rifle alone! By swapping-out the parts that are already there, you are REMOVING history from that rifle, not enhancing it! You are removing the evidence of that rifle within an historic context, and attempting to "replace" it with pure unadulterated fiction.

That rifle already has a history that is detailed in the parts that have been replaced BY THE ORIGINAL OWNER (the US Gub'mint!). The ONLY rifles that 60+ years down the road are "complete/correct" are either fakes (as you propose), or never went anywhere. No "complete/correct" rifle survived it's first "Company Rifle-Cleaning Session" as an "issue" firearm (rifles were disassembled and the parts tossed into a communal trashcan full of gasoline/diesel to soak in an effort to keep that pr!ck of a boot DI off everyone's a$$)...few if any rifles with a combat history have their original barrel...all rifles that did anything have had their sights upgraded to the T-105 after WW II...stocks were replaced/swapped routinely....ALL CORRECT, all part of the rifle's history! The one rifle that is almost certainly INCORRECT, is the one that's "complete/correct"!

One of the BIGGEST pieces of historical vandalism that people do is to take the very historical, very clearly marked 1960's Vietnam rebuilds...and "parts-swapping" them into an ersatz WW II configuration! Drives me nuts....like tearing down a Greek temple to make a pig-shed!

Thanks John, you have articulated exactley the conclusion I was coming to, with the help of the expert advice I have been given. This rifle has some sentimental value to me, it may have been overseas when my Dad was (at least the receiver was, thats a stretch I know, but I will take it). The only things I might do is replace the square front clip latch with a round one if i can find one good enough, and place a walnut stock on it, again if i can find something good enough. I like walnut on American arms. Many thanks again.

Lets see if this works.

I'll be durned!

I'm on a roll!

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Originally Posted by JaxTom

Thanks John, you have articulated exactley the conclusion I was coming to, with the help of the expert advice I have been given. This rifle has some sentimental value to me, it may have been overseas when my Dad was (at least the receiver was, thats a stretch I know, but I will take it). The only things I might do is replace the square front clip latch with a round one if i can find one good enough, and place a walnut stock on it, again if i can find something good enough. I like walnut on American arms. Many thanks again.

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Tom,

If you are going to selectively replace items then you might as well do it all. Personally I would leave it alone for just what it is, a nice rifle of unknown origin.

Nice rifle! Love those crisp, sharp heel markings. I've got a rifle that is about 3,000 off from yours. Same kind of markings. Mine is a '46 rebuild with lots of different parts that aren't correct. It stays as it is. Thanks for the pics.

Thank you all very much for the info and insight. More than likley I wont change anything anyway, but that stock still baffles me. Its almost too clear and clean, but the patina is definitely from a ways back. Maybe one day I'll buy another M1. They are my favorite shooting iron. Thank you all again.

Hello, a member wanted a clearer picture of the drawing number.

The mint "unfired" CMP collector guns are perhaps the only ones which should be all "correct." The military mixed parts freely and any M-1 which was used should have some to many "incorrect" parts. JMHO, but someday all these "restored" corrects may be realized to be what they are - homebuilt recreations. Arsenal rebuilds should be appreciated for what they are - real.

Thanks Griff, I am still wondering if mine is a 'homebuilt" product, simply because the stock is so clear and nice and all the parts are SA, I guess i have this bug in my head about some guy in a basement collecting parts and making up a rifle. Which is fine i gues because i do like my two-toned shooting iron.

Tom I have serial 1018085. Just a few number off from yours. Frank Jr.

The only thing I would change is the rear sight pinion to one without the hood so that it would be legal for use in CMP Garand EIC, JCG, and GSM matches. Think how special that rifle will be to you after you have earned lots of gold medals with it, and 4 EIC points.
You could build another M1 and use the rear sight and any other trick known to man to accurize it for use as an EIC service rifle if the Garand is what floats your boat.
I have a Clint Fowler M1, and seriously contemplating chasing legs with it over the AR especially after shooting the new Hornady match 30/06 in the Eastern Games.
I hope you decide to shoot your rifle as a rifleman. Take it to CMP week at Perry, and to the Western Games in Arizona. It is the best thing you can do with a great rifle like yours.

I was a club shooter for a few years (mainly pistol 1200's & 1800') and an avid reloader but have not pulled a trigger for about 12 years now due to various reasons. I would like to build a Garand or four, maybe after my daughter finishes college and my wife increases my allowance. I have been digesting everything you guys have said, and I appreciate it all greatly. I have been thinking about changing the rear sight because the larger aperture would be easier for my aging eyeballs. As long as its a real SA WWII sight. And yes, the M1 has always been my favorite rifle, I have a SA National Match M1A and it is nice, but not the same.