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I just went through 420 Marine Combat photos taken during about every combat engagement the Marines had in the Pacific.:madsmile: I noticed two things: 16 inch bayonets on M1's and not a single 03 to be seen. The only sniper shown in any of the photos was using an M1 shown in the first photo.:thup:
I do have one question, and that is what is on the end of the barrel of the carbine in the second photo?:confused:
Jim:cool:
Jim, probably a grenade launcher.
Jim
I believe it is an M8 Grenade Launcher.
Ditto
I don't think the Marine with the carbine was missed by the shrapnel.
Jim,
Here you go, Guadalcanal Marines with 1903's;
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/guadalc...o_Jap_area.JPG
No snipers but they are 1903's, I knew two Marines that were on Guadalcanal and both of them told me they had 1903's. I knew the pictures were somewhere out there.
geberl,
Guadacanal was the only action not in the pile of photos. I was expecting to see 03's of the grenadiers, but what I saw was carbines with grenade launchers! To be honest, I didn't know you could use a grenade launcher with a carbine.
Jim
I also saw some footage of Marines with grenade launcher adaptors on their carbines in Ken Burns' "The War".
You got right. It look`s like this grenadelauncher
Is it true many Marines didn't like the M-1 Garand,but favored the tried and trusted 1903s?Reading an article some years back,it stated the Government had a hard time making the Marines accept the M-1!
He looks like he was hit to me.:thdown:Quote:
Originally Posted by George Sr.
Can anyone identify the tank in the 3rd picture? Never seen one that small before.:madsmile: I didn't realize the Marines used tanks as much as they did.
Some of these photos give one some idea of the hell these men endured.:bow:
Jim:cool:
During the early days of WWII, the Marine Corps consisted of two factions: (1) old-line Marines from the pre-WWII days, and (2) new recruits and young officers who enlisted after Pearl Harbor. The old-line Marines were wedded to the M1903 rifle for various reasons. The young new Marines had no such prejudices. After Guadalcanal and the swelling ranks of young Marines saw what the M1 rifle could do, they demanded satisfaction. No government convincing was required. It then became of matter of just how fast they could get them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Stone
As a matter of note, the Guadalcanal action didn't start until August, 1942, some 8 months into the war. By that time, Remington had pumped about 150,000 additional M1903 rifles into Navy and Marine Corps inventories.
J.B.
The Marines didn't have many M1's at the beginning of the war and the 1st Marines that landed on the Canal didn't have any of them. They did have BAR's and Thompsons and even some Johnsons's but no M1's or Carbines. This came from a foreman I had that was in the 1st wave that landed on as he called it the Canal. It is well documented that after the Army came in to releive them that they had to watch their M1's like hawks or the Marines would have them. The Marines saw the distinct advantage of the M1 Garand over their tried and trusted 03's. BTW most of those 03's were low numbersjust like this oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Hank Stone
I beleive they called it a Stewart named after J.E.B. Stewart it had a 3 man crew and a 37 MM gun. IIRCQuote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
Yes, that must be a Stewart. Easy to carry and mobile in difficult terrain.
Jim,
From what I had read and been told, I knew the Marines started out with 1903's and then changed over to the Garands but like youself have been somewhat surprised by the photos I've seen. Since I've been over here in the Pacific I had planned some island hopping of my own, leave permitting, to see some of the islands. Not sure know how many photos I've seen of Pacific island actions but it seems there were alot of marines carrying carbines, garands, thompsons, and other smgs. Definately not what I'd expected, but haven't really been researching the subject indepth either.
Gabriel
Jim since one good pic deserves another i thought you might like these. From a 1943 TM.
Jim
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9/05/106-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9/05/181-1.jpg
The tanks pictured in the second and third photos are M3 Stuart light tanks. The M3 series subsequently evolved into the M5 series. The tank pictured in the last photo may be a M2A4 light tank. If so, service with the Marines on Guadalcanal was its one and only combat service.
More photos from that group.
Another carbine with a grenade launcher. Everyone else is dug in and this guy is crusing the beach! He must be from Jersey.:super:
How about some Amtrac pics? I like Amtracs. Look at all the gear these guys carried.:yikes:
In the last picture, what do you think those guys were thinking?:bow:
Jim:cool:
The "mystery" tank in the 3rd picture is probably an M5 Stuart. Hard to tell from the back. It could also be a late M3. The M3/5 series was almost useless against German tanks in Europe, but against the anemic armor used by the Japanese, it still had a place in the Pacific.
I have found no evidence to indicate that most Marine M1903 rifles carried on Guadalcanal were low numbers. Certainly some low number rifles were present. But, I very seriously doubt that their numbers were predominant. Most Marine rifles at the start of WWII were high numbers. And those were rapidly augmented with new Remingtons.Quote:
Originally Posted by TDH
FWIW.
J.B.
The Marine Corps strength in 1916 was 15,578 Marines, all that were armed with rifles were armed with LN 03's. The Marine Corps strength in 1918 was 75,101 Marines with 24,555 in the AEF (only 6,000 in combat), with most armed with 03's between SN 800,000 and SN 900,000. If one assumes 75%, or less, of the Marines were armed with 1903's (the Corps has a low ratio of Officers to Enlisted), they had approximately 50,000 1903's. In 1940, the Marines had 54,000 1903's, of which 4,000 were not serviceable, which agrees with the previous assumption.
In 1940, the Marine Corps strength was 28,345 Marines, which went to 54,539 Marines in 1941 and 142,613 in 1942. They actually hit 75,000 Marines in early 1942 (approved in mid-1942), which means the Marines probably picked up another 25,000 or more HN 1903's prior to the time the Corps had enough M1's to equip the Marines. I would suggest that maybe 15% to 25% of the Marines at Guadacanal were armed with LN rifles. No one will ever know for certain.
I agree with John. Even though famous for their LN Springfields, the WWI and WWII Marines were predominantly armed with HN 1903's.
Jim
Jim,
Here's a statistic you overlook. For logistics purposes, the Army budgeted three rifles for each enlistee. I'm sure the Marines had a similar figure.
FWIW.
J.B.
One added note, the Marine Corps manpower strength is set at 20% of the manpower strength of the Navy. Bear in mind, the Marine Corps is not part of the Navy (before you squeal, check your facts), but an autonomous military force. Marine pay checks do not come from the Navy. By law, only two people can command the Marines, the Secretary of the Navy and the President.
Marines on a Navy ship come under the direct chain of command of the Marine in command on the ship, and not the ship's Captain. A Marine is not subject to Ship's Mast, but is subject to Office Hours (Marines punish Marines). That does not mean Marines can ignore the Captain of any ship (or any other officer or non-com that outranks them), because they must, just as a Marine or Army Private must obey an Air Force General (legal and lawful orders).
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Beard
Due to the huge surplus of rifles left over from WWI, I doubt the Marines had such a logistical factor between the two wars. If you have 17,000 men and 50,000 rifles, acquisition of rifles would be sparse at best (mostly rifle teams and spare parts).:D I don't know for certain, but I suspect when WWII loomed on the horizen, the Corps was looking for every rifle they could find.:madsmile:
The Corps was already receiving M1's in 1940, but at a rate too slow to arm the entire Corps in time for war. If my memory serves me correctly, they were receiving 350 M1's a month in 1940, and requested that number be raised to 1250 per month.:thup:
Jim:cool:
My late foreman never made mention of how many LN's Vs.HN's god rest his soul as he was a good man. BTW his name was Harry Joseph. I know I read it somewhere on the net that they used a large number of LN's. Since I am not going to do seberal days research trying to find it again if it still exists I will bow :bow: to your expertise. On another note and I can't proove it either is that a large portion of their .30 cal MG's were the water cooled. IIRC it was mentioned in the book Guadalcanal Diaries theat they sometimes ran out of water for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Beard
Yes, It's an M8 grenade launcher.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
I've read that a lot of GI's simply didn't trust the M1 Garand at first because it was a semi-auto and they trusted the dependability of a bolt action.
- GI's are gonna gripe regardless. :D
I've read that same thing on the internet also, vis-a-vis low number Springfields. But, reading it on the internet doesn't necessarily make it true.Quote:
Originally Posted by TDH
Jim Tarleton and I have both done extensive studies of Marine Corps rifles and our studies contradict that statement.
J.B. :wave:
Amen, Brother John.
I started out thinking exactly as TDH, but the facts demonstrate otherwise.
Semper Fi,
Jim
Maybe wanting eggs in my beer, but any idea what the percentage of early Remington M1903s used by the Marines might have been?
Jim and John I have found both of you fine gentle men to be fountains of information and really enjoy your posts. thank you
And Rick the Librarian as well.
Thank you sir. I enjoy researching the old girls, particularly when it applies to AEF Marines. John is about 100 years ahead of me.
Jim
I have no information on Marine usage of Remington M1903's. :dunno: I just know that they got some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian
J.B.
You are more than welcome but please I am not a SIR. I was only a Sargent:thup: there is nothing on my collar so you don't have to salute me:nono: I work for a living :beerchug: My parents were married:super: and Mother didn't bark at the moon:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
Just my strange sense of humor at work.;)
When Injustice becomes law
rebellion becomes duty
Thomas Paine
I was a Corporal.
Howdy folks. Happy Memorial Day to one and all. I know a retired Marine who lives in N.C. He joined the USMC sometime in 1940, and retired in 1973. He had a very busy life. He told me that on his first campaign (Guadalcanal), he had been issued an '03, but soon after making it ashore, he acquired a BAR. He didn't remember any more than that.
Semper Fi,
Joe P.
:rofl:If I remember right your corporal was an E4 just like the Air Force buck Sgt.:beerchug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tarleton
Correct.
Jim
The tank is an M2A4 Light Tank. It was the predecessor of the M3 Light Tank series. The British named the M3-M5 Light Tanks "General Stuart" after Confederate General J.E.B. Stuart. The M2A4, like the M3, had a four man crew and mounted a 37MM cannon and several .30 cal. machine guns. The Marines had several M2A4 Light Tanks on Guadalcanal along with their M3 Tanks. The Marines first used the M4 Sherman on Tarawa in November 1943.
USMC Sniper in 1944 on Saipan ... with rifle.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
Then there is the story of the Marine that dogged a newly arrived GI. When asked why, he replied,"The way your strutting around you're gonna get shot. When you do I will ahve your Garand". The combat Marines knew the value of the increased fire power the Garand provided.