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My first M1903 purchase. Please give me info on value and what you think of the rifle. Thanks.
SN 311,XXX RIA; 42 U.S.M.C. barrel (muzzle measures 0) with circle S, Marine Corp sights; nice stock, faint rectangular box cartouche; H on bayonet lug; checkered stock butt; original sling and cleaning tube w/ contents. Does this sound like a Marine rebuild? Thanks
Well it sounds like a Sedgeley barrel. Sedgeley was a small Philadelphia gunmaker near the Naval Yard that did a lot of work for the Marines. Supposedly few if any of those USMC marked 03 barrels were actually used by the Marines. Seems like the M-1 assumed pride of place in the Marines' Armory and they wound up not rebarrelling as many 03's as they had anticipated. These barrels were pretty common at one time. I remember Numrich, I think, selling them for about $42 as late as the 80's. Overnight they were gone. Nowadays they are pretty sought after. I suspect your rifle was rebarreled by a civilian. I picked up two in a lot of 3 straightened salvaged barrels from Fed Ord (not sold as such but that's what they were) in the mid 90's; kept the best, sold the one not as pretty for the price of the three barrels. Now, there are some characteristics of USMC rifles; one of the most common is a hand-stippled buttplate; and different sights, so I'd do some research; it might be a real gyrene rifle. But probably not.
Your rifle is probably a USMC rifle. But the description provided so far is not entirely convincing. :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by paratrpr
Most Sedgley USMC barrels were indeed used by the Marines. Only some real late 1944-dated USMC barrels were leftover unused after WWII.
The CMP currently sells rifles like yours for $500. With convincing USMC provenance, the value will rise in the $800-$1200 range in nice condition.
Hope this helps.
J.B.
Hey Para,
Is your bolt serialized, what type of stock does the rifle wear? Post some photos and ya' might get a whole lot more info. Good bore?
LB
I am glad to get John Beard's straight dope on Sedgeley barrels. That certainly raises the likelihood it is a real USMC, based on his expert opinion. There was a CA guy on the old forum who described how when the demolitioned the last of Camp Elliott and Camp Matthews (Where the WW2 Dago boots shot) a lot of the old concrete work was rebarred with those barrels and many were NEW and still had cosmoline in the bore. Outsides were bad but bores - perfect. We were talking and we remembered that old range (shot on it '75-'76; it was a Navy range only by then) and how they had old M-1 barrels in the pits holding up 2X12 retaining walls. They had 1940's and 30's junk cars in the berms between ranges and those were becoming exposed as dirt and fill eroded. Ghostly place, then. Been told it's all gone now - developed.
Thanks for your interest and time guys. The butt stock is stippled, the barrel gauges at 0, stock is Springfield, and the bolt is nickel steal SA.
Why is worth more if it is Marine rebuild? Thanks
Also has the large gas port on left side of receiver as well as smaller on right.
also, scant stock, no finger grips, two bolts, s in recess where ammo tab flips down
Your additional description is more convincing. There's a very good chance that you now have a USMC-issue rifle.
USMC rifles are more desirable (and hence, more valuable) because the Marines honed their riflery skills moreso than the other services.
Hope this helps.
J.B.
Hey Para,
One more question. What are the markings on the top and bottom of the bolt handle root, the flats where it meets the body?
Lancebear
Another perspective; from your "handle" I'd assume you are or were Army airborne - another elite military organization. I would assume if you found an 03 you could link to early 82nd or 101st use, you would be ga-ga over that. As an ex-Navy man who served with the Marines I am not sure which I would go nuts over most; an 03 off of a Pearl Harbor battleship or an ex-USMC one! I think your service has a lot to do with your taste in that matter. But having shot in Army training and with the Marines I agree with John Beard's comment above.
I used to visit Federal Ordnance in South El Monte CA. This was back in the 80's. They had dumpsters full of 03 parts that came back from the Phillipines. And they had crates of Sedgley barrels.
They rebuilt a lot of 03's with USMC Sedgley barrels. I saw them on the rack.
So, just because your rifle may have a Sedgley barrel does not mean it is a USMC rebuilt.
I have an Augusta Army Rebuild 03 with a Sedgley barrel that is not marked USMC.
Philippine parts?? I DON'T want to hear about it!!!!
WAHHHHHH!!! :(
National Ord?? i dont think Fed Ord was around yet in the 80,s
I bought an '03 receiver off Fed Ord-I think 1985? They had piles of '03 parts. I now understand much of that particular lot of guns were re-capture guns from 1945. It was a fun store, to say the least.
On the bolt: top has HO 28; bottom reads A and SA under that... is that the year of the bolt manufacture? further clue to authenticity?
Hey Para,
Your bolt was made in late '42-early '43. Only way to identify it as USMC is if it has a serial number arc-engraved on the top of the bolt body visable with the bolt installed in the rifle with the handle down. You should visit Vishooter's site. He and John Beard have generously shared a lot of hard work for us there.
By the way, the USMC marking on your barrel doesn't stand for the Marine Corps. It is the initials of a company called something like the Union Shoe Machine Corporation. Funny thing is that a lot of those barrels were used by the real USMC for rebuilding or assembling rifles, so, one of many Marine '03 rifle characteristics.
Ya' know, if you can post a full right and left side photo of your rifle, and maybe one of the receiver markings, the experts could give you a real estimate of value. The condition of the metal and wood would determine worth, also the bore. Like to see it.
Death to bad guys,
Lancebear
Lancebear,Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancebear
What you been smokin'? :madsmile: "USMC" on a barrel does indeed stand for United States Marine Corps. :slap: Barrels marked "USMC" were manufactured by Sedgley under direct contract with the Marine Corps.
You've confused the "USMC" marking found on barrels with the "USMC" marking found on Model 1917 rifle bolts. :nono: The "USMC" M1917 rifle bolts were indeed made by the United Shoe Machinery Co. and had no connection with the Marine Corps.
J.B. :)
p.s.,
I was down yo' way again last week. :wave:
Thanks professor, must be Hoppe's withdrawal...will open a bottle right away:). Had a feeling I might have screwed something up, helps keep you employed here though.
Regards and death to bad guys,
Robert Lancebeer
Hey Robert-
If you can ever beat the jones on that Hoppe's, I got some rock dust for you.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tandard-27.jpg
I want one of those USMC barrelled M1903's. I am assuming they are as accurate as any other. Seems the tight chamber on the HS barrels gave them an edge.....how does Sedgely compare?
My new job inspector showed up yesterday, he's a tad over 62" and he eats rats, while we peons gotta work.
PD
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tandard-28.jpg
Thanks guys... yes Airborne, all the way and then some! (27th Airborne Engineers)... I'll get some photos uploaded soon... the furniture is very nice (as nice as my correct grade CMP M1s)... the muzzle measures 0!... almost 100% finish on all metal, mottled black... original sling... thanks for all the info... any ideas of value?
Hey Pete,
Ah don no nuffin bout no Sedgley barrels, cep dey was made fuh da United States Marine Corps. J.B. sez so, yu no it mus be tru.
Had that dumbtoid in my head for several months. Glad I posted it and got the straight dope from the professor.
You nap all those stones with a sledgehammer? Gonna' use any mortar?
What kind of reptile is that? Alabama Blacksnake? Workin' snakes are nice to have around. We have little Garters that you rarely see, but I know they eat bugs.
Death to ignorance and bad guys,
Robert Lancebear