Mine has the letter S stamped above the number 9 in the cut-off notch. The head of both cross bolts are stamped with the number 2. I'm curious as to whether this is an original Springfield or a later one made for the A4.
Printable View
Mine has the letter S stamped above the number 9 in the cut-off notch. The head of both cross bolts are stamped with the number 2. I'm curious as to whether this is an original Springfield or a later one made for the A4.
I think you have a Springfield stock. Does it have the slimmer profile? If made for the A4, I think it would have the cut out for the bent A4 bolt.
The pre WW2 C stock also had a drawing number behind the pistol grip
I thought the drawing number (D1836) was only USUALLY present.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
However, unfortunately when the rifles were returned for configuration back to Standard Service Rifles, or repair to the Springfield Armory for the war, all stocks were to be "boned" of all stampings and cartouches. I am not certain if that was ONLY just prior and thru the war, or if it was only post WWII (not SA, but different armories), or both
Fortunately, some didnt go thru the armories, or the boning may have been skipped on some, or some where only lightly boned, so the characters on those with visible drawing numbers (and those NM stocks with the SN) vary between pristine to just a ghost of some part of the characters that can only be seen with great effort (and then I fear im just making myself see it!)
There are four types of C Stocks (type numbers per Harrison):Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtPahl
1) Pre-war type 8 NM C-stocks;
2) A3 type 13 C-Stocks (not likely issued during WWII production);
3) Springfield Arms WWII type 14 C-Stocks (upper comb contour same as type 12 Scant Stocks...these were initially made for the '03 without the A3 handguard ring recess, so many were somewhat crudely modified to fit to the A3, later production included the A3 groove; with added A3 groove and bolt groove this stock was also used for early A4s); and
4) The most popular (USGI preferred) type 16 C-Stock (in reality a type 13 with bolt groove added)
Worthy of note: the most common original WWII A4 stock was the type 15 Scant Stock (a type 12 Scant Stock modified with a bolt handle groove).
The fastest way to tell if you have a type 14 rather than a type 8 (somewhat rare and extremely sought after commanding a very high price these days) is to check if the upper comb contour has a longer slopping angle to the wrist (type 14), or if the geometry to the wrist is a higher angle (45 deg?) and small corner radii (type 8). It is my understanding that both were manufactured by Springfield with a range of letters including "S" present in the cut-off well.
Harrison is in error, and nobody but him used TYPE to describe things, Brohphys book would be a better choice for info. U.S. use of the C stock, {pistol grip} stock pre war. slimmer pistol grip , after 1937 some came with drawing numbers at the heal. most did not, 1942 and later would be whats called by most collectors, fat grip C stocks and the most common, the only rifle issued with a C stock when new would be an 1903A4 snipers rifle, anything else would have been added during rebuild or changing to match target use or sniper use, there was alot of other C stocks that were tried, tested ect, but never used.
Im not sure I can fully agree that Harrison is "wrong". I agree he detailed more variations (which he designated type 1 - 16) than others. However I have seen examples of each of those he described, including all the versions of WWII era C Stocks (the more A1-like contoured pistol grip, the "fat" pistol grip and fat pistol grip sniper, and the contoured pistol grip sniper). I suppose the A3 handguard ring grooves I saw on the contoured pistol grip and the contoured pistol grip sniper stock that Harrison also calls WWII era stocks could have been a modification to the earlier A1 stock, but the grooves look factory cut like A3 S-stocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckindenver
Harrison is not the only one to use the term "type". Poyer refers to "five (basic) types in variations of the M1903/1903A1/1903A3 service stock' and he refers to nineteen variations. However, in the sketch of stocks shown on page 87 it shows the "3. C-Stock" with a finger groove. I think that does indeed qualify as a MISTAKE. I dont see Harrison "in error" per se. Types, variations, versions...its all semantics. I dont see a problem with an author offering new terms to better distinguish and describe variations or versions (as long as it doesnt contradict existing verified authorities). However, it is a little frustrating that there seem to be no two sources using the same references...it does cause confusion. However, as I am aware of differences between authors, I reference the source of the term I might use for clarification and NOT because I advocate any one or another to be the one and only correct source.
Ive got Brophy's work as well, and though he has recorded reams of information not readily available today (up to 118 years after the events) his work, as an effective and accessible tool for a collector, is...challenging at best. He writes like an engineer would. I know, I am a mech design engineer and I would likely write the same way. For historical accuracy and engineering perspective, it is peerless. But it is not an easy read and I find that his work is not an effective collector's tool.
By the 9 and S in the cutt-off, you most likely have a 1939 dated Springfield prewar C stock. Pics would confirm or refute this.
We found docs at the archives that the late C stocks were dated coded with the single number in the cutt-off being the last digit of the year they were made.
This was ONLY in very late SA history. I've seen this as early as 1936 ad honestly I'm not sure if I've seen this practice done earlier than that. If I have I don't remember it. But it's not really something I look for. It was just an observation I made on NM Marine team rifles and then we found the docs that confirmed that SA did do that.