Canadian Ross M10 Mk3 Sniper Rifle (Legit or Put Together?)

I recently received an email from an individual who wanted my opinion on a Canadian Ross M10 Mk3 Sniper Rifle he has in his possession. He gave me permission to republish his pics, which I've attached to this post.

I have also taken the liberty of consolidating a number of his emails with questions and comments into single quoted content below.

Here's an MKL entry for an all correct and authenticated 1915 M10-Ross MkIII* Sniper Rifle, with an associated 227 pic photo montage that may help in the research.

1915 M10 Ross MkIII* Sniper Rifle Serial #223

One glaring difference that I noticed immediately was the absence of the Scope Serial Number being stamped into the right side of the butt, which appears in the MKL authenticated example. (see pic below)

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...s/DSC01992.JPG
(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Any feedback would be appreciated ...

Regards,
Doug

Quote:

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Recently purchased this Ross M10 MkIII with a Warner Swasey M1913 scope from the estate of a 96 year old dealer/collector in the US – his collection included countless rare and one-off firearms from the First and Second World Wars.

The bolt doesn’t match the stock, as is shown. There is a ‘No.5’ stamped on the scope and a ‘5’ stamped on the mount as well. The SN# on the stock is 1915 ‘300’ GG (I believe?).

I wanted to get your opinion – do you think this is legit? Also, do you have a source for either the bayonet lug/nosecap and/or the lower barrel band retaining bolt?

What makes me doubt it's authenticity:

-the screws on the base are rounded, instead of flat.
-the base on your rifle has some curved portions going from the legs that contact the receiver to the rail on the base, where mine doesn't
-the base on your rifle has a black strip in the channel where mine doesn't
-the SN stamped on the scope looks kinda funky
-the SN (300GG) is outside of the range of the first shipment. (though Clive says it's entirely possible it could be part of the second)
-doesn't have scope #stamped on buttstock

The picture of just the stock shows the portion directly under the forward mount 'leg', where theres a small portion cut out to allow clearance, which was mentioned as being correct for sniper stocks.

Any idea what the 'BC5' on the front of the bolt handle? Have anything to do with the scope and mount number being 5? The repair in the stock may suggest refurbishment of some sort.

Those are my thoughts at least.

Thank you in advance

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I already had seen this rifle before. I determined it as a fake already back then. To what I remember, the scope at this point of time was not serialized with a 5. It's anyway easy to tell it was an US scope, since it had featured the top plate, and the elevation adjustment is up to 3000, while originally the Canadian W&S scopes had a different maximum range (I think it was 2400 or 2500, can't remember it without having one of mine at hand).

I just don't think so. It's too convenient to be real. This one looks like parts have been gleaned from everywhere and assembled. All are rough and nothing matches...in my eye... That's without getting into what Promo brings forward, which is damning. This rifle looks typical of many Ross rifles now available in Canada. Cobbled together... This may have come from a collection from far back, but with knowledge and skill, an individual can use a barreled action in the right serial range and go from there. After a few years of darkness it becomes real... I say no.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Promo

It's anyway easy to tell it was an US scope, since it had featured the top plate, and the elevation adjustment is up to 3000, while originally the Canadian W&S scopes had a different maximum range (I think it was 2400 or 2500, can't remember it without having one of mine at hand).

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Extracted from the MKL article and "Without Warning" by Clive LAW (pages 5 thru 16) - ISBN: 1-894581-16-4

Quote:

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These sights were the standard Model 1913 and included a range table applied to the top surface of the sight. This range table, unfortunately, was for the 30.06 caliber bullet and therefore useless when used with the .303 cailbre Ross. These were usually discarded by removing the six retaining screws. Inexplicably, the holes were not covered, thereby defeating the seal and risking interior fogging of the lens. The sights were delivered without a carrying case and a contract was let with M.J. Wilson Ltd., of Ottawa for a leather case. The case was numbered to both the rifle and the scope - the first 250 sights had the scope number stamped above rifle number while the markings on the second lot of cases was reversed. The Department of Militia and Defence also provided printed instructions on the care and maintenance of the sights which were then included with each case.

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Doug, I meant the elevation adjustment of the scope. I looked up on your MKL entry, yours is also with a maximum range of 2400 yards. The US M1913 scope is with a maximum of 3000 yards - because of the different caliber. See your scope here: Photo 196 of 228, 1915 M10 Ross MkIII* Sniper Rifle . And compare it with the one up.
Looking at it more detailed it turns out as a poor fake. Notice they also used two different styled screw heads.

Yup, the scope is completely wrong.

Ed

Just asking for my personal knowledge in pic #30 (2nd bottom row) of this rifle in question apart from having different screw heads to Badgers one the rail appears to be rising from Right to Left it may just be the angle the picture was taken.

I'm thinking the screws, or at least one are hand made.

You can now buy this rifle on gunbroker: http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/615167927

That rail looks far too rough when looking at known original examples. Final machining is quite sloppy, the centre channel has a secondary ridge in it, scope catches are rough cut, there are no radii on the joins between the legs and dovetail sections and the curve on the lower rear portion of the rail the less said the better.

Looks like it's a cast rail that has been done quite undersized as alot of the casting imperfections on critical surfaces like the dovetails have not been removed.

Naughty with renumbering the scope though...






Paul.