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Made it to the range with my Win 17 this morning. Had a bunch of handloads worked up it definitely prefers 150 gr flat base bullets over 168 BT. Best 5 round group was just a bit over 1-1/2" moa @ 100yds off the bench. Not exactly a tack driver but pretty respectable for a 100 yr old rifle with the original barrel
Nothing wrong with that. Well below the military standard I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff557
What loads were working best for you?
Being 100 years old with original barrel has little to do with it. If you replicated one today using the best materials and manufacturing techniques you'd most likely do no better. It is a ruggedly built full stock iron sighted rifle that is performing within original design specs. They didn't have modern scopes, glass or aluminum block bedding.....nor were they designed for long-range competitive target shooting. Unless you are a nationally ranked competitive shooter, I seriously doubt you'd do much better with any open sighted military rifle.....including those in current production.
45gr 4895 150gr Hornady flat base bullet. I tried from 43-47gr of powder that seemed the best-that particularl day who knows if It'll continueQuote:
Originally Posted by jamie5070
---------- Post added at 03:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------
I see where you're coming from-kinda...but I am a bit surprised that it did that well considering the barrel/rifle is 100 yrs old and who knows the care or lack of it the rifle has seen in its lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by Richardwv
[QUOTE=I see where you're coming from-kinda...but I am a bit surprised that it did that well considering the barrel/rifle is 100 yrs old and who knows the care or lack of it the rifle has seen in its life[/QUOTE]
The M1917 had a relatively brief primary service life and most never saw front line action. Nor were they used much for training with live ammo. It isn't rare to find one that the barrel appears lightly to not used, while the outside bears the scars of rough handling. While sub MOA barrels are relatively new for production line rifles, barrel standards of 1.5 MOA date back to the 19th century. Simple age has zero affect on bores, use and abuse does, and many of these just weren't used much. Further, care in rear areas and training environments is also far superior to those in the frontline service. I've got two late production M1917 rifles that likely went directly from factory into stores, then sent to Britain at the onset of WWII for home guard use (acquiring the tell tale red paint) and then repatriated to these shores prior to the current silliness on re-importing US arms. The rifling is pristine in both and prior to my acquisition from the importer, I doubt either had even 500 rounds through them in their prior life. While to our benefit, the natural environment for these rifles for the first 20 to 30 years was to be covered with cosmoline in a wooden crate sitting in some armory....with brief outings for training and quickly returned to storage......prior to being surplussed. Since the issued WWI used rifles were refurbed and stored after the war, I dare say almost all bore wear and abuse found in most can be traced to civilian ownership.
My understanding is the 17 was the primary rifle used in WWI by the Americans ( other than early Win's) and far outnumbered the 03's in service at that time. Their original service life was short but it seems improper post WWI storage was the reason many were rebarreled for WWII and accounting for the poor civilian/post WWII treatment it still seems amazing a 100 year old rifle with an original barrel will shoot 1-1/2moa
While it was the primary rifle issued, the number of troops that actually entered battle with it was around 450,000. Compared to total production, not that great. As to post WWI storage, the refurb for WWII occurred AFTER the main shipment of "as stored" rifles to England following Dunkirk (Winston Churchill's History of WWII). From the same book we learn that the rifles as received by them were covered in cosmoline packed in wax paper and accompanied with factory paperwork.....in other words packed at the factory and unpacked in England 22 years later. One can imagine that much of the "wear" was from the home guard cleaning the rifles. Unlike normal Brit (or most others for that matter) SOP, these did not initially go through a Brit inspection and acceptance.....they went directly to the home guard in anticipation of immediate use against the then thought to be impending invasion.
Inspection and the red stripe evidently came latter after it was clear the Germans weren't coming in the morning and a recognition that poorly trained members couldn't tell the difference between a .303 P14 and a 30.06 M1917 for the purpose of using live ammo. Those that have cleaned the Turk Mausers when they came in 20 years ago know what it is to clean rifles so caked in cosmoline. Given the then perceived urgency when the rifles were received, I doubt they were cleaned with tender loving care by experienced armorers. Which is why I think the typical red stripe rifle has near pristine metal, but wood devoid of original finish and somewhat grease soaked....with lots of dings in the wood.
Mine (2/17 Winnie) is a lot like yours in that it likes the 150 gr. flat base spitzers. It does OK with BT's, but the FB's are considerably better.
I've been tweaking using Garand loads with 4895 and have had good luck. It's been a while since I've been to the range, but 1-1.5" is what I remember shooting with my best grouping without digging the info out.
My P14 I managed just under 1" with 150 gr. rounds with 3031 behind it. Both are dang nice shooters for their age.