Fixed Line Sight for Bren

I thought people would find this interesting. I was going through some stuff in my cabinets and rediscovered this in a box. I bought it at a gun auction in Saskatoon in the 1980's; it was in a Canadian WWII webbing binocular case and I thought I was getting a pair of binoculars. According to the Bren Gun Saga they are not very common, probably because, like tits on a bull, they are pretty useless. A device to try and turn a handy, mobile squad LMG into a fixed position suppressive fire device. I imagine most were either lost, destroyed or scrapped. It does slide nicely into the dovetail on my DEWAT Mk I Bren, so I can sit behind it on its tripod and imagine it being devastatingly effective. :)


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Well, not quite as useless as all that. If you mount the Bren on it's mount and you happen to be in a defensive position, this sight turns the gun position into a compass. You can record targets that are distant, obscured by smoke, darkness, fog or a slight rise in the ground and the gun can engage reliably. That's what the definition of indirect fire is for the LMG/GPMG/HMG...not the same indirect fire as the mortar. There are aiming stakes involved and a plotting board which again, looks like a map with other info written in. This info all lives in a central location in the defensive position and is used to engage and defend the position. Also protective fire can be called in from someone trying to evade enemy at a distance as they can send the map coordinates and the gun can be directed there and corrected from the distant observer. These don't get clamped onto a mobile gun being carried with a sling across the body... The Bren was one of the original General Purpose Machine Guns...

The carry box looks about right too, the binocular case was an expedient for carry.

Thanks Jim! I didn't realize the Brens were used very much in the static position on the tripod. Everything I have heard about the tripods was how heavy and unpopular and little used they were, so I assumed the Fixed Line Sight devices must have been equally little used since one goes with the other. I appreciate the insight into how the devices could have been used.

A quick question for those who have used them in other than recreational situations--I have read that the Mk I barrels were "too accurate" so the later versions were made to disperse the bullets a bit more. Is that true? And would that affect the utility of the gun if it was being used in a longer range protective fire type situation as outlined above?

Thanks!

Ed

At longer ranges it's called the cone of fire and beaten zone and all machine guns have it. I don't think the Bren threw them around too much even from the later barrels. It never had the reputation even after changing to 7.62. With the mortar the pattern is called the "Probable error and dispersion" or the 85% zone. That is 85% of the rounds land close enough together to be effective. This sight could be employed on the Vickers, 81mm mortar as well so one class on this sight could teach three weapon courses the use of the same sight. To be honest, I'd think the static roles would be handled by the Vickers and the Bren would be used more in the lighter roles. But that's how the sight would be used.

Very Rare and Mostly Pointless: the Bren Fixed Line Sight - YouTube

I doubt there are as few as "a couple of dozen" survivors - owned one at one time. Reason for rarity being most were left in France in 1940 along with 12,000+ Bren guns and no doubt the tripods, spares etc. etc., which the Wehrmacht must have been delighted to receive. The Fixed Line Sight Dunkirk 1940 - The Before, The Reality, The Aftermath

Ian doesn't seem to know about the No32 scope and the Bren...

He could have just shone a light in the "objective" to make the pyramid reticule display....

Apparently telescopic sights for MGs were absolutely not to be countenanced in HM Forces pre-war. A wonderfully complex and accurate adjustment system - even more so in the Vickers sight - made far less useful by the lack of any way of really accurate laying on target.:rolleyes:

This despite copying the pyramid reticule of the ZF12 and being on the receiving end of them all through the first war.... "Telescopic sights are only for artillery, harrumph!"

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=28135

I no longer have one to examine, but is there something apparently quite contradictory in the instructions at the link above:

Quote:

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“If it is desired to fire the gun from the bipod, remove the fixed line sight and return it to its case, and remove the gun from the tripod. The greatest car must be taken to ensure that the setting of the fixed line sight is not disturbed.”

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As the sight cannot be returned to the case without being as it says on the wooden insert, "Set to Zero" this seems slightly odd! Or is there some way to preserve the setting when the sight is "set to zero"?? I cannot see any graduations at all.

I'm afraid I am at a loss to see how the aiming lamp might be placed behind the gun while not being visible to the enemy, unless facing to the rear also! Perhaps useful for relief and resupply parties trying to find the gun position in the dark?

IIRC the Bren had a reputation for accuracy, and the 5° margin of safety in alignment no doubt was well over the angle of the actual cone of dispersion from the axis of the bore.

All in all, it is a very odd piece of kit indeed and clearly exemplifies that old maxim about armies preparing to fight the previous war.

I love my elcan, I think it's a great option for shorter carbines due to its compactness. It's 1x is very usable indoors and the red dot..

Here is a register of known serial numbers from a couple years ago: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=28229

Re the Binocular case, technically, you have to find the early one without the buckles. The buckles for the carry strap did not come out until a few years after the sight was introduced.

Yup, just like the Bren 100 round drums made in Kitchener Ontario alone.
They made almost 300, 000 of them but try and find one.
I need one more but like political promises that are fulfilled ...they only exist in never never land or priced out of reason.