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I just bought and M1 garand from a neighbor and I beleive the op. rod is bent. The reciever, barell, trigger group, and bolt are springfeild, around april of 43', or so I think. The op rod is an HRA from 56' (i think) I searched through some of the older threads on here and found that Jim Swartz is the man to see when it comes to these things, is he still striaghtening them? last related thread I could find was early last year, is his contact information still the same? thank you _Eric
The OP Rod has a natural curve in it anyway, its supposed to have a natural curve. What brings you to conclude it is otherwise bent? Can you bring the bolt all the way to the rear where it locks, then release the bolt and it go all the way home, or does it bind up? There are other posibilities too, the Op Rod spring could just as well be binding/rusted,etc. Have you taken the rifle apart and lubed everything good? I am not the expert here either, but I did see your post and at least want to ask a couple questions while I had a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Hall 43 m1
well a number of things... the previous owner took it apart to replace the front gaurd, he noticed the spring was broken, so he replaced it. I fired it for the first time the other day and the first round didn't fire, so I ejected it and chambered the next round, this one fired but then the op rod jumped off its track and left the bolt hung up on the round. Upon further inspection the op rod isnt parallel with the groove in the hand gaurd. it runs slightly to the right. also if you look at the handle of the op rod, the arm that runs next to the reciever does not look completly straight either. I found another post on this site with a member who experienced a similar problem and fixed it with a new op rod. I did take note this morning before I left for work that the new spring is 21" long. I read elsewhere that it should be a max. 20.25" not sure if thats true or not though...but i have considered cutting it down. what do you think?- Eric
You might want to post some photos so we can more easily see the problem areas:
- overhead and side view with op-rod installed and bolt locked back
- right side view of receiver, out of stock with op rod removed
- inside of op-rod lug
- any unusual wear areas on the op-rod
If you remove the op-rod spring, does the rifle pass the tilt test?
• Minimum Uncompressed Op Rod Spring Length (From Gathered Empirical/Actual Test Data): 19.00” (measured end to end – see blueprint picture on how to measure).Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Hall 43 m1
• Maximum Uncompressed Op Rod Spring Length (From Blueprint C6147568): 20.25” (measured end to end – see blueprint picture on how to measure).
Garand, M1, M14, M16, Carbine, 1911, 1917, Militaria, Small Arms
Where did the new spring come from? (Who Made it)? Also the tilt test will help out a lot, and looking for abnormal wear/shiney metal somewhere along all the bearing and contact surfaces.
I'm not a mechanic, so when my car doesn't work I'll take it to one. Rather than guess about this M1...that seems to have a plethora of difficulties...
I agree, an experienced eye is what you need, it may be nothing more than lubrication and putting it back together...correctly. Put out your zip code and see if someone familiar with the M1 lives nearby and is willing to have a look. We could come up with a dozen "Uh Oh" possibilities, but the odds are it's something simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Eric,Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Hall 43 m1
Jim Schwartz retired, and passed his business along to:
[[[ http://www.columbusmachine.com/index.htm ]]]
I've not used this service, but the general consensus is very positive.
Coupla quickies:
1) Columbus Machine Works can completely refurbish your op rod, including all the proper bends, dimensions, etc.
2) "Wolff" springs are more problem than they are worth, Orion 7 sells what are reputedly the best in the business:
[[[ http://www.m1garandrifle.com/Garandparts.htm ]]]
HTH
Ben Hartley
I had a wolff spring that produced slam fires - changed it to Orion 7 spring and never had one again
All, I trimmed down the spring a bit and everything feels a lot better. I'm going to take it a gunsmith before I hit the range, but I think all it needed was a shortened spring. I dont know where the previous owner got the spring. Thanks for your input.- Eric
Minimum uncompressed length according to Nichlaus and Associates is 19", maximum 20.5", while Milsurps member Dave Waits has submitted 19.5" and 20.5" as the min/max uncompressed lengths. Just a guideline, there are other things that may cause a spring to under-perform. Go with Orion for peace of mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Hall 43 m1
I don't know why you're dicking around with the spring. I'd have the rifle looked at and don't be trimming springs down. You could be buying into trouble.
I agree. A spring that was a little on the long side wouldn't cause the op rod to jump off it's track.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
The reason I asked for photos earlier was to see if you might be dealing with a reweld or if there was some damage other than a bent rod that might cause things not to operate smoothly. Without more information, all our suggestions are just guesses at best.
You Did? :yikes::yikes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Rochester
I have read that the operating rod has a manufactured bend or curve. I am awaiting my first Garand and only have a limited knowledge. Find someone who is familiar with your gun and get a hands on opinion. If the operating rod cycles the bolt and a round into the chamber you are probably good to go but get some good advise before firing the gun. Best of luck.
Just got my first M-1 Garand home and when I stripped to grease and oil it before going to shoot this weekend I found my Op rod is bent not horrible and I can see it has been fired lots with the bend (right at the point it enters the gas tube can see where it has rubbed for about an inch in the gas tube as well as on the rod) also after reading this thread I did measure the spring and it is aprox 20.6 inch uncompressed. I am guessing probably was fired with too hot a load. so I am asking and hoping someone in Canada or willing to ship one to Canada has a spare around or can point me to someone that does. please any help would be great . Or to tell it is supposed to go this way?
Thanks In advance
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...122_72lo-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...22_445lo-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...22_243lo-1.jpg
Fredsbar1, I wouldn't worry about your op rod unless your rifle doesn't work. Did you shoot it? Try it first. The radical bend is normal and I can't tell if there's any other side bend. You may be able to get a spare op rod here in Canada by advertising but try your rifle first. The spring is probably OK too. You can call Brownells for a replacement but make sure you get Military spec not upgraded.
I've been trying to date the parts of my gun and so far all the numbers point to april of 1943, with the exception of the op rod. It reads 6535382 HRA. Are the first numbers serial numbers or drawing numbers, or something else? If it is a serial number it seems a little late? just curious. Also I bought and old gun from some radom guy in the sticks so I could "dick with it" but i appreciate everyones concer for my well being. thanks -Eric
The number indicates an H&R part from the early 50's probably. There should be a letter there too. Either first or under it. It just means the part was added for some reason, likely availability at the time. It'll work just fine.
Well I just performed the tilt test (as advised) and it doesnt look good. It was more like the tilt and shake test. I tried just the op rod without the bolt and there seems to be a lot of binding against the barrel. I guess my heart was hoping it was just a spring. I got a number to a local gunsmith that a friend has used with great sucsess. I'm going to contact him monday.
Attachment 31498Attachment 31499Attachment 31500
I must admit that looks like a lot of wear on the bottom. I still ask, How does it shoot? It's obviously been shooting for years like that. Could be the barrel's just a touch out of index. That's not that unusual. Just means the frone sight isn't TDC. That would still require an experienced hand to remedy. So...how does it shoot?
well i was nervous to try it since weve been talking but i want to shoot it tomorrow. I just hope the op rod doesnt jump track again. Cutting the spring loosened it up a bit and it cycles rounds and all much smoother, so im hopeful. (even if it wasnt the right thing to do) I just noticed the lowerband is missing its roll pin. the prevous owner replaced the hand stock himself... looks kinda crooked- Eric
your right in suggesting it wasn't the right thing to do. glad it worked out o.k. BUT remember slam fires are possible, and usaully come when you least expect it. So holding your mouth right, or praying it won't happen isn't sufficiant reason to try it. I am glad nothing happened. "Down Range is the place to load your weapon" everywhere else is always a risk to the loader, and or bystandars. Especially family memers in your own home. Sheetrock and 2X4's don't usually stop 30-06 fmj too well at all. I'm not trying to lecture you, and I appologise now, if it came off the wrong way, just giving you a helpful reminder, "that old army gun is potent to say the least" and it's never a good idea to cycle live ammo anywhere but "down range" at the range... Best of luck, and try to find some dummy rounds for future cycling practice, thier safe at all times.Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Hall 43 m1
Eric...Quote:
Originally Posted by E.Hall 43 m1
The operating rod might be dragging on the lower band. A 1/8" diameter, 1/2" long roll pin from the local hardware store will fix the lower band in place.
Ben Hartley
Well I shot a clip through it today and it worked without a problem. All rounds fired, shells ejected, and the clip shot out with a "pang"! I guess it needed a little less tension. I'm not a great shot (broke my glasses wed.) but was able to hit my target with the Iorn sights with little problem. I've never shot a garand before, what a fun gun! Thanks for your input, this site is pretty sweet.- Eric
Congrats on a fun range day!