First Krag - 1898 Ceremonial Rifle

Being rather frugal, and on a pretty tight self imposed vintage rifle budget, I find myself acquiring rifles that are, shall we say, less appealing to most collectors - and often in need of work or restoration.

Always wanted a US Krag but have not been willing to pony up the going rate for a nice one and I really don't want a sporter - too many folks chasing too few parts to restore them.

So when this homely example appeared for sale on another forum for 1/4 the going rate for nice ones I couldn't resist.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...df5006a5-1.jpg
Seller described the bore as rough but with strong rifling so I had hopes it would be a decent shooter. He even went so far as to strip the black and yellow paint coats from the stock prior to shipping. Safety was missing but everything else was there including the acceptance cartouche and firing proof.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...563aa07d-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...812878e7-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b44539cc-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...abe89edd-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c18471a4-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...23a515cd-1.jpg
I slugged the muzzle this last weekend and measured a .310 bore so I loaded up some .311 Sierra 180 gr pro hunters that have performed well in my enfields and Finnish Mosins. After some experimentation I found a mild 33.5 gr charge of 4064 in reformed 303 HXP brass matched the sight curve pretty well. Bore is indeed heavily frosted (pitted) from one end to the other but with strong rifling - appears to have digested more corrosive blanks in it's history without proper cleaning than ball cartridges.

Have only fired a couple of dozen rounds so far but since I was not expecting great groups I've been quite please with the initial groups.

100 yds

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f044b65e-1.jpg

200 yds

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d6ae888a-1.jpg


I have found a guy experienced in deplating and refinishing these ceremonial rifles but I'm still torn on whether to leave it in it's current state or restore the finish. There was no question in my mind regarding stripping the ugly paint from the nice walnut stock but the metal refinishing is a harder decision. If I do restore the metal I would have about $575 in it. I would welcome opinions on whether or not to restore the metal.

Regards
Marty

I'm sure I remember seeing or hearing of it on another forum, the paint color reminds me... I'd go ahead and remove the chrome, it looks OK after. Then a bit of hand polish and blue I'd think...Professional hot blue, but you can do the polishing. The bore should get cleaner every time you shoot. Thanks for showing us after the tease on the other thread. I'd have bought it too.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I'm sure I remember seeing or hearing of it on another forum, the paint color reminds me... I'd go ahead and remove the chrome, it looks OK after. Then a bit of hand polish and blue I'd think...Professional hot blue, but you can do the polishing. The bore should get cleaner every time you shoot. Thanks for showing us after the tease on the other thread. I'd have bought it too.

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Thanks for the input. Yes I posted it on gunboards and the consensus there was leave it as is - the chrome is part of it's history. I can see both points of view - I'll mull it over a while before I decide.

Maybe you could see the look of surprise through the finish on somebodies face after you light it off a few times. I wouldn't let the desire to get a "real nice one" rush me to judgement to quickly. I think its pretty decent as is even though finish in my view may only be confidence inspiring in some respects. You have exactly opposite a dilemma as a lot of others face, looks like it shoots and operates pretty fairly well.

Ok, finally a dead calm afternoon to see what "ole ugly" can really do.

Fired 5 shot groups 100 yds. First I tried 5 180 gr
.308 core lokt roundnose - maybe I measured the .310 bore incorrectly. This group was 6" at 100 yds but no keyholes. Beginning to wonder if maybe I just got lucky with those good initial 3 shot groups last weekend with the .311 180 gr pro hunters. Maybe I'm gonna need a new criterion barrel. The original is indeed heavily frosted an tears patches pretty bad.

So - load up 5 pro hunters and carefully squeeze them off.

Looked thru the sporting scope and couldn't control a huge grin - damn 4 grouped under 2" - all 5 under 3".

Look out CMP match next month! If I can figure out how to load the magazine fast enough for the rapid fire prone.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d23893ce-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Doco overboard

Maybe you could see the look of surprise through the finish on somebodies face after you light it off a few times. I wouldn't let the desire to get a "real nice one" rush me to judgement to quickly. I think its pretty decent as is even though finish in my view may only be confidence inspiring in some respects. You have exactly opposite a dilemma as a lot of others face, looks like it shoots and operates pretty fairly well.

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I would only now just worry about getting the safety and the sight knob chromed to match the rest.

Use it shoot it enjoy unless you want a pretty looking rifle leave it alone an use that extra money for another addition to your safe.

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Originally Posted by mtoms

maybe I measured the .310 bore incorrectly

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Shoots just fine though. I'd not change the barrel... Just for the record, use a buckshot ball and tap fit through the bore. It needs to be about .32 cal. Then measure carefully with a dial caliper. That will give final answer. Don't be buying a new Criterion though...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Shoots just fine though. I'd not change the barrel... Just for the record, use a buckshot ball and tap fit through the bore. It needs to be about .32 cal. Then measure carefully with a dial caliper. That will give final answer. Don't be buying a new Criterion though...

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I used a lead fishing sinker but it was too large to go all the way thru - could only get the first 3/4" of the muzzle, but I could see the throat looked good so I figured the muzzle was most important.

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Originally Posted by mtoms

too large to go all the way thru

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Try coming from the back. Put the muzzle down and tap-tap with the nylon hammer and a good steel .30 cal rod. Straight blows and it should pass a cleanish bore. Pick it up at the last tap to fall clear.

[QUOTE=browningautorifle;389533]Try coming from the back. Put the muzzle down and tap

Hmm...this bore is far from what I would call clean. Heavily frosted and tears cleaning patches. I'm amazed it is shooting as well as it does.

Bought several chrome M1903's once (one was a MkI), took them to a chrome shop and had the chrome removed for about $75 each. They came out really nice- I had worried that the shop might go overboard, being used to old car bumpers etc., but they knew what they were doing- I parkerized those, but you could do a nice job of bluing yourself for very little money. I've used Radocy Express rust Blue (there are others) on various gun parts and they always turned out nice. Careful metal prep and following the directions is key to a nice result, but it isn't that difficult and is far, far better than "cold" blue (and the stink of Selenium) for both appearance and durability. Krag bolts are finished "in the white" anyway, so you've got that going for you. Best of luck!

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Originally Posted by mtoms

Heavily frosted and tears cleaning patches.

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I'll bet it cleans up more once it's been shot a bit.

I kind of like the antique chrome look-- it's something different. Salt Flat

Make no mistake, I'd have that rifle too...specially since I still have dies and brass...

Thanks guys - seems the collector consensus here (though far from unanimous)and on the Krag collectors forum is not to mess with the finish.

Also found i guy over there that has agreed to make me a couple of quick loaders for CMP competition.

I'm just floored that it shoots so well for you, after all it's done to date.

Had an opportunity today to shoot the local vintage benchrest match-10 rounds at 100 meters and 10 at 200.

Shot my old standby first - my SwissIG1911 - 189 5x - not bad but I've certainly done better with that rifle.

Next I shot the Krag- 191 2x this old girl is amazing to have such a rough bore.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6ed06fe4-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5ff9eaa0-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=60187

You really ought to have the rifle cleaned of all plating because it's hideous. It isn't part of its military history. It has the most god awfull deteriorating plated finish that I would never want to have on any rifle I was seen with. It now needs to be Un Fucxed. Seriously, why are you even considering leaving it as it is now. Because some guys say to leave it that way? WTF? Your rifle is an Extremely accurate one and you are obviously a highly competent rifle shot. You owe yourself a fine looking rifle and not one that looks like it's continuing to be seriously neglected. Clean it. Don't worry about your money. It's well spent. If for some reason you don't want to go to the trouble of having it professionally cleaned, then sell it to somebody who will.
Seriously, you'll be happy that you Did bring it back to its respectable appearance.
Good shooting by the way. Really good shooting.

Fred

I certainly respect and appreciate your opinion Fred, as I do the collectors who counseled leaving it as is.

The finish certainly is not from the rifles military history, but it is part of it's history, and a new finish would not be part of it's military history either - it would just be pretty.

I may take your advice at some point - the cost of refinishing is not an issue for me - but for now I'll just enjoy the old homely girl as she is.

Regards
Marty