RELOADING FOR THE 7X57 ROLLING BLOCK

RELOADING FOR THE 7X57 ROLLING BLOCK

Attachment 77020

I have been looking for this photo in my firearms files. The Model 1901/02 Remington Rolling Block was made for higher pressure rifle ammunition than the earlier 1868 and 1879 rifles. Off the top of my head, these were the modern smokeless powder calibers offered by the factories that made the rifles:
1. 7x57 Mauser (Remington)
2. 8x58R Danish (Husqvarna)
3. 8x50R Lebel (Remington)
4. .30-40 Krag (Remington)
It is not that the rifle is weak but most single shot rifles do not handle escaping gas (from a burst Ctg) very well. The photo shows a 1901/02 Model in 7x57 Mauser. I had a report with the photo, that the rifle was being fired with a load suitable for the 1898 Mauser rifle. That is a load too hot for the 1901/02 rifle. Another problem with the 7x57mm 1901/02 rifle is, the headspace in the rifle is usually .008"-.010" longer than the standard SAAMI chamber. These rifles will usually eat a 7x57 Mauser field gauge. These rifles were made long before SAAMI was in existence. The result was a full case head separation and the hot load blew the rifle up. The shooter was injured and as you see the rifle was really wrecked.
I would not fire factory ammo in a Model 1901/02 Remington in 7x57mm. It should be reloads only. To fix the headspace, the easiest thing to do is alter the ammunition. The procedure is, expand the neck of a 7x57 ctg. with a tapered .30 or .32 neck expander (LEE). The case has to be full length resized but back out the die so the headspace on the small area of shoulder is long enough, that the breech block will barely close on the case. Lock the lock ring on the FL resizer. Size your neck expanded cases and load a normal load in them. I would keep 1901/02 loads down to 40,000 psi. Fire form the cases and the shoulder on the fired cases will fill the shoulder area.. Keep the Rolling Block ammo separate from standard 7x57 ammo.
If you don't have a ready supply of 7x57 cases, you may have a quantity of 8x57 Mauser cases. Run the 8x57mm cases through the full length sizer and trim to minimum length. Be sure you don't have any case sizing lube in front of the shoulder, it will dent the shoulder area badly because you will be moving the shoulder back toward the head of the case.
There is a danger in this procedure. When sizing a neck down to a smaller caliber, the outside loaded diameter of the neck must be smaller than maximum, the dimensions given for the neck diameter in our reloading manuals. It is really better to be .001" to .002" smaller than maximum in loaded neck diameter. The problem with the necks being over sized is, the bullet might be squeezed by the thicker neck as it enters the neck of the chamber, causing the bullet to resist leaving the case as the rifle is fired. This is called excessive bullet pull. This condition can spike pressures to very high levels.
The inconvenient part of this procedure is, you have to load your ammunition to check the loaded neck diameter. If the loaded neck diameter is excessive you need to run an inside neck reamer into the neck, to remove excess thickness. To do this you have to pull the bullets on the over sized ammo. If you are lucky they won't have to be reamed. I actually prefer the first procedure with 7x57 brass. I usually don't get lucky.
I know there are not many 1901/02 Remington 7x57 rifles around but if my post would prevent one accident like this one from happening, it is worth my time.
Note: There does not seem to be any problems with the other 1901/02 rifles made in smokeless rifle calibers. That may be because the are all rimmed. Always check the headspace on older and military rifles before firing them.
Be careful out there ,
Doug

A few years ago, I found a nice Remington 1902 rolling block in a local gun shop, it was in 7mm and had the barrel cut back (poor bore too) and sporterized. After purchase, I installed a heavy 45-70 barrel and re-stocked the rifle, also made a large tang sight. Most of my shooting has been black powder but have used some smokeless loads tooAttachment 77040Attachment 77041

Photo shows the limitation of using a longer case such as the 45-100 or 45-120 but I understand that some owners modified their rolling blocks to accept the longer cases

These rifles can be exciting to reload for by the unwary. I had a left hand boss that only shot old single shots.
His 7X57 RRB had a chamber that looked a little like a 7X57 Ackley Improved 28 degree shoulder but it all appeared to be original.
His first shot pierced the primer and blew the hammer back and cocked it. The rolling block opened with the primer stuck on the firing pin which was still protruding from the breech block.
The primer pocket was about .250 in diameter and the case was half out of the chamber.
The best he could tell was the neck of the chamber was a little shorter than a loaded round and the shoulder of the chamber was further forward. His loaded round extended into the origin of the rifling and did not release the bullet until pressures were very high. He made brass out of once fired 270 Win brass and the old rifle shot ok after that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doug Bowser

RELOADING FOR THE 7X57 ROLLING BLOCK

Attachment 77020

I have been looking for this photo in my firearms files. The Model 1901/02 Remington Rolling Block was made for higher pressure rifle ammunition than the earlier 1868 and 1879 rifles. Off the top of my head, these were the modern smokeless powder calibers offered by the factories that made the rifles:
1. 7x57 Mauser (Remington)
2. 8x58R Danish (Husqvarna)
3. 8x50R Lebel (Remington)
4. .30-40 Krag (Remington)
It is not that the rifle is weak but most single shot rifles do not handle escaping gas (from a burst Ctg) very well. The photo shows a 1901/02 Model in 7x57 Mauser. I had a report with the photo, that the rifle was being fired with a load suitable for the 1898 Mauser rifle. That is a load too hot for the 1901/02 rifle. Another problem with the 7x57mm 1901/02 rifle is, the headspace in the rifle is usually .008"-.010" longer than the standard SAAMI chamber. These rifles will usually eat a 7x57 Mauser field gauge. These rifles were made long before SAAMI was in existence. The result was a full case head separation and the hot load blew the rifle up. The shooter was injured and as you see the rifle was really wrecked.
I would not fire factory ammo in a Model 1901/02 Remington in 7x57mm. It should be reloads only. To fix the headspace, the easiest thing to do is alter the ammunition. The procedure is, expand the neck of a 7x57 ctg. with a tapered .30 or .32 neck expander (LEE). The case has to be full length resized but back out the die so the headspace on the small area of shoulder is long enough, that the breech block will barely close on the case. Lock the lock ring on the FL resizer. Size your neck expanded cases and load a normal load in them. I would keep 1901/02 loads down to 40,000 psi. Fire form the cases and the shoulder on the fired cases will fill the shoulder area.. Keep the Rolling Block ammo separate from standard 7x57 ammo.
If you don't have a ready supply of 7x57 cases, you may have a quantity of 8x57 Mauser cases. Run the 8x57mm cases through the full length sizer and trim to minimum length. Be sure you don't have any case sizing lube in front of the shoulder, it will dent the shoulder area badly because you will be moving the shoulder back toward the head of the case.
There is a danger in this procedure. When sizing a neck down to a smaller caliber, the outside loaded diameter of the neck must be smaller than maximum, the dimensions given for the neck diameter in our reloading manuals. It is really better to be .001" to .002" smaller than maximum in loaded neck diameter. The problem with the necks being over sized is, the bullet might be squeezed by the thicker neck as it enters the neck of the chamber, causing the bullet to resist leaving the case as the rifle is fired. This is called excessive bullet pull. This condition can spike pressures to very high levels.
The inconvenient part of this procedure is, you have to load your ammunition to check the loaded neck diameter. If the loaded neck diameter is excessive you need to run an inside neck reamer into the neck, to remove excess thickness. To do this you have to pull the bullets on the over sized ammo. If you are lucky they won't have to be reamed. I actually prefer the first procedure with 7x57 brass. I usually don't get lucky.
I know there are not many 1901/02 Remington 7x57 rifles around but if my post would prevent one accident like this one from happening, it is worth my time.
Note: There does not seem to be any problems with the other 1901/02 rifles made in smokeless rifle calibers. That may be because the are all rimmed. Always check the headspace on older and military rifles before firing them.
Be careful out there ,
Doug

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I had one a number of years ago that I could not get to shoot with any accuracy. After quite a bit of work and trial and error I found that if I set the over all length to at least that of the old 175 gr. RN bullet that the rifle started to show signs of being accurate after all. If I extended the 175 gr. bullets a few thousands out more the rifle was very accurate. But I did use only starting loads with it.