I'm no expert, but I think i have some copper fouling

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...na8Uupng-1.jpg

What solvent are you using? Some solvents don't drastically change color as much as others, and hard to tell if your getting a false positive, or how much copper fouling you have. Some will change color if you copper anywhere in the same room (I'm exaggerating of course). I have confirmed this with a borescope. Not all copper solvents are created equal, in price or quality.

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Originally Posted by ssgross

What solvent are you using? Some solvents don't drastically change color as much as others, and hard to tell if your getting a false positive, or how much copper fouling you have. Some will change color if you copper anywhere in the same room (I'm exaggerating of course). I have confirmed this with a borescope. Not all copper solvents are created equal, in price or quality.

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That's a great point reference the effectiveness of the different solvents. Which copper works best for you? I've tried the Hoppes Copper, Sweets and a couple others. Thanks!

If your using a brass jag then sometimes the copper leaches from the jag but is only miniscule, but looking at that you have copper in the bore is no biggy just keep going until its not discoloured.
A word about SWEETS solvent if you have a stainless barrel then max time in the bore is about 5 minutes that stuff causes issues with them I use stainless barrels some say it increases fire cracking SWEETS is for my 303's if they have been shot allot.
I have used HELMAR (New kid on the block) just as good if not better than BORETEC products which now cost us $85/AUD per container for 750Ml. Dry patch out the SWEETS then patch the bore with Methylated spirits to neutralize the SWEETS then dry patch out till dry then oil.

Got all the others HOPPES, ONE SHOT, Bore foam, SHOOTERS CHOICE, TETRA SOLVENT, Carbon removers as well with a fair few others at the back of the line up! I find the HELMAR product affordable and does a good job, I have a finicky rifles like the 6.5/284 and a .223 both are a chore to clean after a range day, I boil all my barrels every 2nd time out.

One of my friends uses 50/50 vinegar/windex mix and swears by it never tried it and don't think I ever will.

A comprehensive answer since I just assumed you asked for one...and a disclaimer...take it with a grain of salt. Everyone thinks "THEIR" way is superior, and everyone else is an idiot, and some people are more vocal than others about letting you know it.
Having one of those cheap bore cams simplified my cleaning routine on all my firearms, as well as cleared my shelves of the myriad of different products. At 20 bucks, it's worth more than any more expensive bottle of novelty solvent or gun cleaner. Take a look after each step of your process. You will learn what works and how it's working, and what isn't.

On milsurps, I clean as soon as I get back from the range (see point 0. I don't want it to sit without any lubricant's protection in the bore.). The simpler the process, the more likely you won't be too lazy to do it after shooting all day. The cheaper the process, the more likely you will do it more often, and not skimp on products.
0) before shooting - like on my way out the door to the range, I patch out the barrel with denatured alcohol to remove all lubricant - cheap and effective. Oils in your barrel will burn to the metal when shooting like putting oil in a pan when it's too hot. Having that inside your barrel will also look like it's still dirty after hours of scrubbing.
1) After shooting, bronze brush and cheap ole hoppes no. 9. Don't get carried away 2 dozen strokes is usually enough for me. patch out dry. With milsurps, patches will keep coming out dirty for weeks as the carbon soaked solvent is pushed in to every nook and cranny. don't sweat it. Hoppes loosens all the carbon great, but doesn't "wick it away" all that good. All oil based carbon solvents suck at the wick away or dissolving part. It's just chemistry. Just patch till the bore is dry.
2) I use sweets because it's fast and effective. Follow the instructions on the bottle, that is patch back and forth for a 60 seconds, then patch out till dry. On really bad copper fouling barrels, I may do this twice.
3) remove all traces of solvents. I use denatured alcohol. Soap and water works too. At this stage, you'll notice your patches come out pretty nice and white, whereas after (1) you would go through a thousand patches and each one would come out dirty no matter how hard you scrubbed.
4) lubricate and protect till next time. But first, read this controlled experiment that brownells did.
https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn...aspx?lid=10700
I use a wet patch with wd40 so it gets in all the imperfections inside these old barrels. Remove excess by running a dry patch through. If it's a rifle I don't shoot that often...it gets a patch liberally coated in RIG for reasons in the article above - move it back and forth vigourously (use a bore guide warning, use coated rod, etc...). the RIG melts and flows with a smallest amount of friction.

All this takes me less than 10 minutes - no longer than it takes for my young kiddos to look at my targets and offer their criticism while I clean. Once a year or so, depending on how often I shoot the rifle, I use JB paste to give a good deep clean, along with removing the stock and preserving everything with RIG. Wall hangers, or rifles that rarely ever get shot, I follow the NRA museum's guidelines with renaissance wax. http://www.nramuseum.org/media/10073...20wicklund.pdf

Why not just use renaissance wax on everything you ask? Well, RIG protection is great, but won't last 100years. It will eventually dry out if not re-applied. However unlike renaissance wax, the body heat in your fingers is enough to melt RIG so it isn't removed when you handle it. Renaissance wax, with its superior durability and longevity, will be removed with handling. So, RIG on things you will remove or handle regularly, and take care of. Renaissance wax on all else, and only handle with a soft cloth or felt gloves just like the museums.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssgross

A comprehensive answer since I just assumed you asked for one...and a disclaimer...take it with a grain of salt. Everyone thinks "THEIR" way is superior, and everyone else is an idiot, and some people are more vocal than others about letting you know it.
Having one of those cheap bore cams simplified my cleaning routine on all my firearms, as well as cleared my shelves of the myriad of different products. At 20 bucks, it's worth more than any more expensive bottle of novelty solvent or gun cleaner. Take a look after each step of your process. You will learn what works and how it's working, and what isn't.

On milsurps, I clean as soon as I get back from the range (see point 0. I don't want it to sit without any lubricant's protection in the bore.). The simpler the process, the more likely you won't be too lazy to do it after shooting all day. The cheaper the process, the more likely you will do it more often, and not skimp on products.
0) before shooting - like on my way out the door to the range, I patch out the barrel with denatured alcohol to remove all lubricant - cheap and effective. Oils in your barrel will burn to the metal when shooting like putting oil in a pan when it's too hot. Having that inside your barrel will also look like it's still dirty after hours of scrubbing.
1) After shooting, bronze brush and cheap ole hoppes no. 9. Don't get carried away 2 dozen strokes is usually enough for me. patch out dry. With milsurps, patches will keep coming out dirty for weeks as the carbon soaked solvent is pushed in to every nook and cranny. don't sweat it. Hoppes loosens all the carbon great, but doesn't "wick it away" all that good. All oil based carbon solvents suck at the wick away or dissolving part. It's just chemistry. Just patch till the bore is dry.
2) I use sweets because it's fast and effective. Follow the instructions on the bottle, that is patch back and forth for a 60 seconds, then patch out till dry. On really bad copper fouling barrels, I may do this twice.
3) remove all traces of solvents. I use denatured alcohol. Soap and water works too. At this stage, you'll notice your patches come out pretty nice and white, whereas after (1) you would go through a thousand patches and each one would come out dirty no matter how hard you scrubbed.
4) lubricate and protect till next time. But first, read this controlled experiment that brownells did.
https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn...aspx?lid=10700
I use a wet patch with wd40 so it gets in all the imperfections inside these old barrels. Remove excess by running a dry patch through. If it's a rifle I don't shoot that often...it gets a patch liberally coated in RIG for reasons in the article above - move it back and forth vigourously (use a bore guide warning, use coated rod, etc...). the RIG melts and flows with a smallest amount of friction.

All this takes me less than 10 minutes - no longer than it takes for my young kiddos to look at my targets and offer their criticism while I clean. Once a year or so, depending on how often I shoot the rifle, I use JB paste to give a good deep clean, along with removing the stock and preserving everything with RIG. Wall hangers, or rifles that rarely ever get shot, I follow the NRA museum's guidelines with renaissance wax. http://www.nramuseum.org/media/10073...20wicklund.pdf

Why not just use renaissance wax on everything you ask? Well, RIG protection is great, but won't last 100years. It will eventually dry out if not re-applied. However unlike renaissance wax, the body heat in your fingers is enough to melt RIG so it isn't removed when you handle it. Renaissance wax, with its superior durability and longevity, will be removed with handling. So, RIG on things you will remove or handle regularly, and take care of. Renaissance wax on all else, and only handle with a soft cloth or felt gloves just like the museums.

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Excellent advice, I will try it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssgross

What solvent are you using?

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Montana X-Treme Bore Solvent. I've been switching back and forth between that and Hoppe's No 9 just because I have so much of the latter on-hand.

Also, using Montana's product gets me in trouble with my wife due to the strong smell :lol:

Adding to #5 always use a chamber bore guide and some way of measuring the rod so whilst your pushing the rod scrubbing the bore your not exiting the bore completely as you can get or damage the crown by to much vigour going completely out the bore and back again. Once the jag exits remove it from the rod then pull the rod out put the jag back on to repeat the cleaning process tedious yes but saves damaging the bore or crown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssgross

A comprehensive answer since I just assumed you asked for one...and a disclaimer...take it with a grain of salt. Everyone thinks "THEIR" way is superior, and everyone else is an idiot, and some people are more vocal than others about letting you know it.
Having one of those cheap bore cams simplified my cleaning routine on all my firearms, as well as cleared my shelves of the myriad of different products. At 20 bucks, it's worth more than any more expensive bottle of novelty solvent or gun cleaner. Take a look after each step of your process. You will learn what works and how it's working, and what isn't.

On milsurps, I clean as soon as I get back from the range (see point 0. I don't want it to sit without any lubricant's protection in the bore.). The simpler the process, the more likely you won't be too lazy to do it after shooting all day. The cheaper the process, the more likely you will do it more often, and not skimp on products.
0) before shooting - like on my way out the door to the range, I patch out the barrel with denatured alcohol to remove all lubricant - cheap and effective. Oils in your barrel will burn to the metal when shooting like putting oil in a pan when it's too hot. Having that inside your barrel will also look like it's still dirty after hours of scrubbing.
1) After shooting, bronze brush and cheap ole hoppes no. 9. Don't get carried away 2 dozen strokes is usually enough for me. patch out dry. With milsurps, patches will keep coming out dirty for weeks as the carbon soaked solvent is pushed in to every nook and cranny. don't sweat it. Hoppes loosens all the carbon great, but doesn't "wick it away" all that good. All oil based carbon solvents suck at the wick away or dissolving part. It's just chemistry. Just patch till the bore is dry.
2) I use sweets because it's fast and effective. Follow the instructions on the bottle, that is patch back and forth for a 60 seconds, then patch out till dry. On really bad copper fouling barrels, I may do this twice.
3) remove all traces of solvents. I use denatured alcohol. Soap and water works too. At this stage, you'll notice your patches come out pretty nice and white, whereas after (1) you would go through a thousand patches and each one would come out dirty no matter how hard you scrubbed.
4) lubricate and protect till next time. But first, read this controlled experiment that brownells did.
https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn...aspx?lid=10700
I use a wet patch with wd40 so it gets in all the imperfections inside these old barrels. Remove excess by running a dry patch through. If it's a rifle I don't shoot that often...it gets a patch liberally coated in RIG for reasons in the article above - move it back and forth vigourously (use a bore guide warning, use coated rod, etc...). the RIG melts and flows with a smallest amount of friction.

All this takes me less than 10 minutes - no longer than it takes for my young kiddos to look at my targets and offer their criticism while I clean. Once a year or so, depending on how often I shoot the rifle, I use JB paste to give a good deep clean, along with removing the stock and preserving everything with RIG. Wall hangers, or rifles that rarely ever get shot, I follow the NRA museum's guidelines with renaissance wax. http://www.nramuseum.org/media/10073...20wicklund.pdf

Why not just use renaissance wax on everything you ask? Well, RIG protection is great, but won't last 100years. It will eventually dry out if not re-applied. However unlike renaissance wax, the body heat in your fingers is enough to melt RIG so it isn't removed when you handle it. Renaissance wax, with its superior durability and longevity, will be removed with handling. So, RIG on things you will remove or handle regularly, and take care of. Renaissance wax on all else, and only handle with a soft cloth or felt gloves just like the museums.

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Wow! I used your recommended technique and it worked! I have a 1941 M39 (matching bolt and receiver). I have worked on cleaning the bore for almost 3 years and could never get a 100% clean patch out of it, despite detailed cleaning sessions. This session ended in a snow white patch. I have a couple more long guns that are going to get this treatment. Thank you for your advice!

There is a wax on wax off metaphor in here somewhere. My chopsticks aren't fast enough for flies though.
Just never forget to lightly oil before putting it away, especially if you degrease before shooting and after cleaning. If you aren't going to clean right away, at least run an oily patch through, and put a bright neon tag on it to remind you to get to it ASAP.