Police Pull Over and Payback

Ever see something that Jogs your memory ?

After seeing Reply #11 in the link below and that beautiful finish on JimF4m1's
Ed Brown Kobra Carry,
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=65155&page=2


Seeing that fine finish brings back a memory from years back.
Back when working every Friday morning (payday) I'd meet my field supervisor and go over which of us was heading in what direction, so I could split up the payroll checks for my crews. And pass the word to who was working the weekend.. etc. Here I should add that because of an incident years earlier I required that someone in his position have a CCW license. Often when stopping by the job sites you'd also be collecting. We were both licensed to carry and did so. We took off from the shop, him in one of our work vans and me in my truck. At this time we were both heading to the same job site since I had a meeting there with the Gen Contractor. While I was following him on a rural 2 lane blacktop road a State police officer came around me and got behind him, pulling him over. Not knowing what the problem was I also pulled over but in front of those 2. I'll admit thoughts of if he was in trouble for something I wasn't aware of had crossed my mind. That and concern over him having about 20 or better payroll checks for part of the crew. Being a long time trusted friend and employee I expected this pull over to just be something minor or a mistake. We weren't speeding, plates were up to date and no lights out or cracked glass. Officer seen I had pulled off in front of them and had to of seen these vehicles were from the same company as both wore similar vinyl signage. Trooper stayed in his car on the radio until another trooper pulled in front of me. The 2nd officer told me to move on...... Very first thing I did was tell him I have a firearm with me and was licensed for it. Our laws require you to reveal that info immediately upon any further communication. He then shouted out GUN to the officer who initiated the stop. I kept my hands out the window so he could see I was no threat. Looking over I could see the 1st officer had his gun drawn on my Field Sup. Who also had his hands hanging out the side window. At this time he hadn't been approached by the 1st officer or had any communication with him yet. When asked where my gun was I replied in the console. Under gun point I did as asked and stepped from the truck and hands over my head back stepped to the rear tailgate, then cuffed..... for their safety. That's when I heard the 1st officer's first words to my guy, who immediately interrupted him to tell him he was also armed. "Out of the van !! face down, hands behind your back.. cuffs on for our safety, stand with him". Together they pulled my pistol from the console of my truck and seemed shocked it was loaded. Which I had told them it was and to be careful. 2nd officer let me pull my paperwork from my wallet.... while still cuffed and pistol on the hood of my truck. They seemed to calm down with me but, wasn't so pleasant with my guy. They pulled his loaded Gold Cup from the van, cleared it and set it on that short hood all work vans have. He also gave them his paperwork and there we stood waiting on why he was pulled over. Never asked just doing what was asked of us. While they pow wowed at the rear police car another State trooper pulled in behind all of us...... lights flashing, siren screaming. I remember asking my guy if he'd had any trouble, which I doubted he had. He replied nothing ! Worked until 9pm the night before. So we waited and waited, then heard the clunking sound as we seen his .45 slide off the hood of the van down on to the paved shoulder of the road. This was when the original officer who seemed upset over being interrupted came up, said were're good to go and to collect our Sh!t but don't reload until we are gone. After pulling our hand cuffs off he slid that .45 about 10' across the pavement with his boot toward my guy.
That gun was scarred to death. First 2 police left, never even looking back at us.
When we tried to talk to the 3rd Officer about what the hell just happened, about the damage to the gun and why the pull over (Assuming he was their supervisor) he had nothing to say or add. WTF ? I got his name and post location that he reluctantly handed over but came off like we were lucky we weren't headed to jail.
So there we were picking up the pieces and dealing with the embarrassment of having clients and neighbors driving by while we looked like thugs.
My field supervisor fuming over the beating his priced Gold Cup had endured.
Well, you know that old saying... What goes around comes around ?
Well when the last Trooper left, we gathered our gear and headed to the job site.
The whole time on our radios cussing and raving about what had happened.
Remember I had a meeting to get to. Met up with my Gen Contractor who introduced me to his next new build client Mrs. Cop #3 !!!!! I put together the price and proposal for that build that afternoon..... while the mornings events were fresh on my mind.

Needless to say the accepted bid was padded to include the price of a new replacement Gold Cup and then some.

Looking back, I believe it was the police having to swallow the fact that more and more people they were going to come across were now legal CCW.
Not like years earlier when in my county 97% of the time a CCW was rejected.
The 3% that were accepted had to show a type of extreme danger to their person...etc to qualify.

Still have no idea why he was pulled over to begin with.
Never did file a complaint vs the Troopers.... 2 of which we couldn't ID if we had to.

Charlie,

You shouldn't have had to ID them. Their daily report sheet should have mentioned the stop. I would have gone to the trooper station and talked with their captain.
When I lived in Calif, forget getting a CCW there, I was pulled over and got a ticket. I went to court to fight it as it was the truck that passed me who was speeding and he pulled us both over. The Highway Patrolman lied about the distance he was behind tracking the speed. I pleaded my case in court and the judge said she had to go with the patrolman's side as he was a trained officer. I went from the court to the Patrol station and asked to talk with the captain. Told him the story. He said he would check and get back to me. Two weeks later I get a call to come to the station. He had listened to the court tapes and the patrolman had purjured himself on the distance, buy two miles. He asked if I wanted him fired, or I could have him embarrassed by having his sergeant ride with him for two weeks. I chose the later. But since I didn't go to him first, my ticket stood and it cost me $180. That irked me.
There are many, I'd say mostly, good officers. But there are also a few who have a power trip.

Being a retired police officer of 30 years, I wonder why you didn't complaint about the way you where threated. The Troopers could have been identified by there radio traffic. Makes me wonder. So you feel good about sticking to the police??
Skip

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Originally Posted by skip_c

So you feel good about sticking to the police??

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No one was threatened.
Why would I feel good about it ?
Nothing GOOD came out of it. It was a wash. A supervisor that didn't want to take the time to explain what the stop was over.
If by "Sticking it to the Police"
Do you mean padding the cost of finishing their new home?
That was a written proposal that could have easily been rejected and they could have found another Contractor.
Many friends are Police and their families, some are neighbors. Most friendly and a few that just wave but mind their own business.
I worry about what these men and woman face everyday out there. I'm just Joe Public and can only speak about the few dangers out there, that I have run across.
But that would be the tip of the iceberg compared to what they face everyday.
Imagine the Police having to deal with not just the few odd balls like I'd run across, but them having to deal with the worst of the worst that are out there.
Rapers, baby killers, on and on. For all I know these guys may have spent the night filing reports on a Mother who smothered her 6 month old.

Have always had great respect for our Police. Never liked hearing one called a cop. They are Police there to protect and serve and I'm glad they are. Yea I carry but that won't help my family if I'm miles away.
If you read the above again both my Field Sup and I did everything we could to show we were no threat. No surprises for them to walk up to. No where above did either of us disrespect any of these Officers.
Dangerous job and underpaid imo.
I have no idea what they were up against that morning or why we were handled the way we were.
But I'm a big boy and can take care of myself. Time spent filing a complaint against an Officer for what? Because they were grumpy?
Now the gun falling to the ground then being kicked across the pavement was a dumb *** move.
But the $$ damaged done was recovered when the Proposal was accepted and work completed.
At no cost to the tax payers and no time wasted in court.
Let alone the wages and production we'd of lost.

With the interest attached to the loan for the house the fat induced for the replacement Gold Cup would have equated to allot of replacements over the life of the loan.

Curious if you remember when this happened? Doesn't seem like this "gun business" was an issue until recently. Of course, "recently" is a relative term here. I graduated HS in 1971 and remember guns in trucks in the school parking lot. And remember bringing a "sold" gun to school for transfer to the buyer. Waaaay back in the old days...

Russ

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Originally Posted by RASelkirk

Curious if you remember when this happened?

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Wish I hadn't started this because of all the bad memories but, I'll finish it up.

Getting pulled over happened just before Deer Bow season say late Sep 1984.
My Field Super's gun was a Colt Gold Cup MKIV National Match, IIRC it was a 80 series.He had won it from a charity outdoor raffle... like QDMA or the like.
My pistol was purchased from (at that time) the current county Sheriff, a S&W Model 19-3 in .357.
Both of us had the Non Restricted Michigan Concealed Pistol License, OK to carry concealed, these were normally turned down to 97% that applied in our county, only 3% got the ok if you could show you had reason to carry such as a threat... etc this was June of 1983 looking at my original in hand license, passed by the 3 member gun board.
The main reason we were able to qualify and receive these licenses was after having a problem with a employee who had been with us for about 3 years. Thankfully the Police and Gun Board understood our needs at that time and IMO couldn't have been more helpful.

This is hard to tell short and sweet, so here it is:

Early April, 1983,
Problem Employee:
Somethings just didn't add up about him. He was a skilled worker and could climb with the best. But he hung out with some bar flies though he was a light drinker, one being a carpet layer who was constantly in some kind of trouble... drunk driving, fighting, dope, domestic etc. We had nick named him after some wind up toy or something like that. In the morning he was running a 100 miles an hour but by noon at a crawl. Everyday he had something he'd have to leave the site for like pay a water, electric bill or go to the bank. When he got back he was fully wound up. One day while he was off running an errand one of the younger guys mentioned he'd never seen him without a long sleeve shirt on even when it was really hot out. He was also the type that even though he was there everyday and paid in full on every Friday, he always needed a few hundred on Monday morning. On this Friday we paid the gang and took the whole weekend off. That night my Wife and I were eating a light dinner out in the screened porch with the local tv news on when they reported a local mid 20's gal found that had been tortured and died from her wounds. She had been sliced and diced roughly 40 times with possibly just 1 or 2 wounds that could have been fatal. Then the news showed the picture of the carpet layer while saying 1 suspect was in custody with 1 still being hunted. No picture of the 2nd guy but named him....... yeah it was our guy.
I called the county Sheriff, went down and told him all I knew about him. Monday came round and he didn't show to work. Tuesday when pulling in the site I could see his truck parked behind our job/tool trailer. He was sleeping in the cab. I got him out of the truck and tried to hold him still but it got pretty intense. Finally had no choice but to put him down, while he was down and out a few of the others pulled in. No cell phones around back then so sent 1 of the labors off to call from a neighbors about a mile down the road. While waiting we pulled his long sleeves up to reveal he'd been using needles. Police arrived and hauled him off, I followed to give another report. When I met with the Sheriff I asked if my and the companies name could be kept from the news people to which he agreed.
The grisly part was finding out these 2 had been over heard in a bar talking about hooking up with some gal known for dealing. I was told they went there and did their deal and returned to the bar where they were over heard again about heading back to her place to rob the rest, since she'd be working her night shift at a factory. Sheriff told me they returned and broke in only to find her there. They tortured her by slicing and cutting her so she'd tell them where her stash was. It got worse as it went even cutting her nipples off. She ended up dying probably from loss of blood as told only 1 or 2 of the cuts could have possibly been fatal. They had found the dope hooked below the shower drain. Sheriff figured since they'd been there earlier she may have pulled their order from a bigger package, thus giving them the chance to plot.

Carpet layer and his trusty utility knife gets 25 years for 2nd degree murder.
Our guy gets a Hi-end lawyer through the help of his wealthy parents and pleads he just froze not being able to move as it was happening. Gets bonded out until trial date and starts tormenting my and my Sup's family. Both of us had younger kids at the time. This EX employee knew how, who and when we banked/collected. We had recorded threats from him. He wasn't happy about me turning him in, but never did I hear him mention that young gal they'd robbed and tortured. He rolled on anyone he could to try to lessen his sentence. When finally locked up he got 8-10 years. Used the prison phones (which are recorded) to call and threaten us when ever he could.
He died before he had served 5 HIV +.
Tough way to get your CCW License, but back in the day he made it easier for 2 of us to get our's.

I much prefer today's access to get our CCW licenses.

You will notice at the end of the story Charlie that the wheel of life in the hands of you know who rolled on that turd and gave him a painful fatal disease in a place where hopefully before he was found out to be HIV+ that he dropped his soap regularly in the shower and was pounded to within an inch of his life I hope he is enjoying hell and the lady finds peace as no one deserves that soul destroying end of their life may she have found peace.

I've seen and been through a lot of crap in my life. I guess I'm from another camp.
War is for greed usually power, land, or faith. Men ordered to kill others for someone else's gain. And the respondents defending thier own. No one, especially the common soldier, wins at war.
Theft is the intent to deprive the rightful owner of something a thief didn't want to work themselves to receive.
Rape is about power and control.
Murder is for Revenge, Jealousy, Greed, Power, Culture conflict. Most people in a good state of mind would not consider do it. Psychological disorders can be a factor.
I don't believe in Karma. And it is distressing to think that bad things happen merely through chance or accident, but they do. The saying "everything happens for a reason" is the New Age version of an old religious saying: “It's God's will.” And or "a lesson to be learned."
These acts are perpetrated by bad, and or mentally unstable people, whether they are in power or not. Not Karma or Religion. First off there are too many religions in the world to say one is correct over another.
I feel I have the right and obligation to defend myself, my family, and my property.