2 WWII and 1 WWI helmets found - one with Camouflage Cover

Hi all, I'm just starting to learn helmets, and picked these up this weekend.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b8ffa2_b-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10305c_c-1.jpg
I think the lined one with the camo cover is WWII, the lining appears to be. It's a Firestone 22. It has a name written on the leather. But I can't get the liner out of the helmet, gently pulling it. I want to check the helmet itself, and the cover. Is there a trick to getting the liner apart from the steel?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...09a4b7_b-1.jpg

Also, does the camo cover look like it's WWII era, or later? I know nothing about that, but my dad was USMC in the late 1950s, and everything he brought back had a similar camo pattern.

The WWI appears original by looking at the bales and seam connection. It has a partial leather strap inside. ZB49 stamp inside.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fa9184_c-1.jpg

The far right helmet has the front seam, and 652C it appears inside. Swivel bales, sewn on straps, metal buckle. It looks like the original cork and paint to me. Agree?

How'd I do for $20 for all?!

The M1 Helmet was virtually identical for the whole time they were issued. The cover is a Viet Nam era colouring. 1965 and later. Should be a manufacturer's ink label in it. Might be a repro though. If it's not coming off easily it may be stuck with rust. Oh and $20 is cheap. Even with the rough condition.
Go here. U.S. helmet covers

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Originally Posted by Sunray

The M1 Helmet was virtually identical for the whole time they were issued. The cover is a Viet Nam era colouring. 1965 and later. Should be a manufacturer's ink label in it. Might be a repro though. If it's not coming off easily it may be stuck with rust. Oh and $20 is cheap. Even with the rough condition.
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Desert southwest here, we don't get much rust. Also, from the estate of the owner, seriously doubt these old timers would have any repro stuff, they had generations of stuff at their house being sold. Also, I don't know what you mean the M1 helmet was virtually identical throughout production. The "virtually" is the details. Front seam, types of bales, types of cloth and color in the liner, rivet types all can tell you precisely if it's WWII issue. That's what I'm trying to confirm here.

Do other experts agree it's a Viet Nam covering though? Because the liner is WWII. The other helmet is WWII, and when I get the cover off, I'll let you know on the other helmet.

The liner may just be choked in with sand or time. Be gentle extracting it and don't use the suspension harness to pull, I imagine you already ruled that out. Just work with the edge of the liner, it may have been crammed in tight and grit holds it. The liner looks early, is there a grommet in the front center? The covers originally were HBT I think, like the head harness...which that harness appears to be. Once you get it apart, we'll see more.

Yes, you did fine for cost.

Hi, got it out. It's olive drab on top, and it has the grommet in the center front. The steel helmet looks newer, has the rim seam in the rear, and 1196A inside. The camouflage cover is reversible, and has a DSA stamp and 64 date. Here is what I'm thinking happened at the owners house. Someone took the WWII Firestone liner, which belonged in the earlier steel pot, and put it in this newer steel pot.

I've corrected that, putting the liner into the other steel pot with the front seam. Does it appear they match up, in eras?

Yes, the old steel pot and the liner from your description...should match. The newer steel outer still isn't junk though. Pics of the liner would help these guys though...to identify... Have a look here and you can identify the outer by the heat lot code. The liner too... US M1 steel helmet forum

Thanks, will continue to check the newer steel one. It has a code 1196A inside. I put the camo cover with it.

Here's another site to help you with that... Dating M1


Lots of info there, yours is a WW2 shell. Also pictured is a little of the early HBT cover I spoke of so you can see...

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Originally Posted by AZshot

How'd I do for $20 for all?!

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Bargain of the week I'd say.

As Sunray says, Vietnam camo cover. Just like the first M1 helmet I bought, had a Vietnam era cover and underneath the M1 helmet was a front seam WW2.

WW2 M1s were made by the McCord radiator and manufacturing company of Detroit who made 90% of the 22 million helmets made during WW2. The other 10% were made by the Schlueter Manufacturing Company of St Louis. Schlueter stamped an 'S' under the heat lot number, so I'm assuming yours are McCord.

Both are WW2 manufacture. The front seam 652C would have been made end September / beginning October 1943, and the rear seam 1196A March 1945. Very nice original paint/cork. Front seam M1 Has a later, possibly Korea, chinstrap. WW2 straps were a lighter OD.

The liner looks very nice, WW2. Its missing the nape band at the back and the leather chinstrap. J Murray (https://jmurrayinc1944.com/) does good repros, but it would be nice to fit original WW2 - if you could find them. Probably cost a lot more than the 3 helmets! As Jim says, be very careful with the webbing in the liner, can be very delicate after 70+ years.

Can we see some more pics of the liner and the rear seam M1?

Great find, thanks!

Cheers.

Thanks, I'm learning. I'm thinking the rear seam M1 was reconditioned for Vietnam. It has a buckle that I think was barely used in WWII, plus it's the darker green color. I see two layers of paint on the outside, where there are chips there is an under layer. You don't think that Firestone liner went in this one?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...344d97_c-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4be773_c-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...272fb2_c-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9734fb_z-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ebe526_z-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 11:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

And the Firestone liner.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0e854c_h-1.jpg

The T1 chinstrap on the rear seam M1 shell is the same as on my 'Vietnam' M1 pot, so yes may well have been reconditioned for Vietnam.

The liner has a later OD#7 headband (dark olive drab), post WW2, that would have been used in Korea. And maybe Vietnam? Probably, but not sure.

Like all military gear, things got swapped around, regardless of how it was when first made. And who knows what happened after military service. The best you can do is to put them together as they might have been. Either M1 shell could have been used with the Firestone liner in WW2 (but with lighter OD#3 webbing and chinstrap) and may have been used together for Korea and Vietnam. The T1 chinstap is Korea or Vietnam. And obviously the camo cover is Vietnam.

If they were mine, I'd try to find WW2 nape and headbands in OD#3 and a leather chinstrap (nothing wrong with adding repros) for the Firestone liner and put it in the front seam M1. With that original paint/cork, it would be a great piece.

Then find another liner and make up a Korea (or Vietnam) pot with the rear seam M1.

Regards, Charlie

Thanks, good plan.

$20 for three helmets and a liner is very, VERY good. I've considered myself lucky to pick up the occasional post war helmet for $20 at yard sales. You can't even get a WWII liner for $20. I currently have two post war helmets with post war liners and a WWII Schlueter helmet with no liner for my US collection.

I have a small helmet collection: WWI German, Canadian, WWII German, British (late war), Belgian, Swiss, Swedish, Italian, Bulgarian and a French on the way. Post war I have a Russian and Swiss.

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Originally Posted by AZshot

2 WWII and 1 WWI helmets found - one with Camouflage Cover

Hi all, I'm just starting to learn helmets, and picked these up this weekend.

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Nice buy on those helmets! Do you have any pictures of the inside of the WW1 helmet? I've been trying to research a similar helmet for an older brother - so far I believe his is actually a 1917A1. The outer rim on his is attracted by a magnet, but the rest of the helmet isn't, except the (4) areas where the inner lining contacts the shell, as well as the bales and rivets. - Bob

Great buy and great timing with this post.
I'll follow and try to learn.

Bob or Jim-BAR,
Do you remember who Harlan used to work with when the two were restoring helmets for members ?
I have 2 here that Harlan was going to go thru for me, but we ran short of time.
I miss my friend.

Again Nice buy for AZshot.
I thank those who have posted links to help us helmet newbies.

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Originally Posted by painter777

Do you remember who Harlan used to work with when the two were restoring helmets for members ?

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Sorry, but I don't. Wonder if you could search old threads and find the name? - but knowing you, you've probably already done that. Think JimF might know? - Bob

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Originally Posted by painter777

Do you remember who Harlan used to work with when the two were restoring helmets for members

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No, I don't...don't think he told me. I agree, a search might turn it up.

By the way, yesterday was Harlan's Birthday...I miss him too.

Hi again, I found a liner that I'd like ID'd, picking up this afternoon. With the tan webbing, I assume it's WWII era. To put in my refurbished helmet above. What do you say, is this a good liner for $40? Thanks.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1fe8b9_c-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...da0915_o-1.jpg

I went ahead and bought it without being able to see a makers cartouche at the seller's home. But when I got home and cleaned it, it's an IMP. Should work fine for the other helmet.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...62cd8d_b-1.jpg

Good catch and yes it'll be fine. As stated earlier...last year... any liner would work and was issued that way. Outers came separately to supply and they assembled it. Then you'd get issued a cover and band. Maybe neck piece too... All that depends on timeframe as to names of parts... Anyway, that one is fine. Yes, the grommet in the front will give you a ballpark of WW2 date.