Cut down M91 Carcano

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06-25-2017, 06:41 PM
Aragorn243

Cut down M91 Carcano

I picked up a "wall hanger" on Saturday for dirt cheap so no real loss one way or the other. I assumed it was a TS 91/24, a cut down 91 with the original rear sights but on measuring the barrel, it comes to what I believe to be 20 inches. This does not match any of the known lengths I can find but all three of my Carcano books are currently in deep hiding so I can't look at those which would be the best source material. I know a few others own the same books and would like to know if there is any military length at 20 inches. It is the original front sight, the barrel was turned down for it to fit and the stock actually wasn't cut back that far. If I wanted to put a bayonet lug on it I could with maybe an additional 1/2" of wood added but the seam would be under the band and the screw would be secure in the solid wood.

The chamber has what I believe to be silver solder in it. It it's a weld, all bets are off and it's a parts gun. I can't get the screws to release yet so any heating and melting it out are off at present. Bore looks very decent and there isn't any pitting that I can see, just a nice solid coat of surface rust on all exterior metal. They also clipped the firing pin so they weren't messing around. Impression I got from the seller was it had been hanging on the wall in some sort of club for quite a while.

I have come across two references to 20 inch barrels on "sporter Carcanos" that may have been done by a private firm who imported them way back whenever. It is stamped 6.5 on the barrel and also has chicken scratch stamps that I can almost imagine saying "MADE ITALY" no "IN" but it could be something else completely also. This appears to be over stamped on the date although a "17" by itself is very clear and unmolested. Made by Terni.
06-29-2017, 10:59 PM
bob4wd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I picked up a "wall hanger" on Saturday for dirt cheap so no real loss one way or the other. I assumed it was a TS 91/24, a cut down 91 with the original rear sights but on measuring the barrel, it comes to what I believe to be 20 inches. This does not match any of the known lengths I can find but all three of my Carcano books are currently in deep hiding so I can't look at those which would be the best source material. I know a few others own the same books and would like to know if there is any military length at 20 inches. It is the original front sight, the barrel was turned down for it to fit and the stock actually wasn't cut back that far. If I wanted to put a bayonet lug on it I could with maybe an additional 1/2" of wood added but the seam would be under the band and the screw would be secure in the solid wood.

The chamber has what I believe to be silver solder in it. It it's a weld, all bets are off and it's a parts gun. I can't get the screws to release yet so any heating and melting it out are off at present. Bore looks very decent and there isn't any pitting that I can see, just a nice solid coat of surface rust on all exterior metal. They also clipped the firing pin so they weren't messing around. Impression I got from the seller was it had been hanging on the wall in some sort of club for quite a while.

I have come across two references to 20 inch barrels on "sporter Carcanos" that may have been done by a private firm who imported them way back whenever. It is stamped 6.5 on the barrel and also has chicken scratch stamps that I can almost imagine saying "MADE ITALY" no "IN" but it could be something else completely also. This appears to be over stamped on the date although a "17" by itself is very clear and unmolested. Made by Terni.

What you have there is most likely one of several thousand that were sporterized in Italy for an importer, post war. It should be stamped as you said, "MADE ITALY". My example's barrel is 19 inches, though. Frnt of barrel was turned down slightly to fit the new front sight. Hobbes makes mention of these in his book. Most of them that I've seen were very well done, excellent blue and clean wood. Should be a good shooter, but I never have tried it out. Yet.
06-30-2017, 06:57 AM
bob q

They really are bad shooters since the gain twist rifling is cut off . Not enough twist left to stabilize anything but some odd loadings .
06-30-2017, 07:20 AM
Aragorn243

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob4wd

My example's barrel is 19 inches, though. Frnt of barrel was turned down slightly to fit the new front sight. Hobbes makes mention of these in his book. Most of them that I've seen were very well done, excellent blue and clean wood. Should be a good shooter, but I never have tried it out. Yet.

Barrel to receiver on mine is 19 inches. I added the length inside the receiver. Might be what I have.
06-30-2017, 08:49 AM
Aragorn243

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob q

They really are bad shooters since the gain twist rifling is cut off . Not enough twist left to stabilize anything but some odd loadings .

The Italian military didn't seem to have a problem with their accuracy. They cut down a lot of 91's to make TS models.
06-30-2017, 11:49 AM
bob q

Well if you actually shot one you will find that it does . I have test fired 8 of the 91/24's , all shot bad . The 91/24 rebuild program was "busy " work by Mussolini . They were replace with correct 91/28's very quickly when they needed useable carbines . A 19.25 twist rate will not stabilize a 160 grain long rn bullet . That is why the Italians used a final rate of 8.25 .