NPM Carbine with 2 Odd Parts

For some unknown reason, I decided to take down my late Summer/early Fall of 1943 National Postal Meter Carbine from late in the first serial block, 1,548,992. I had not previously pulled the recoil plate, and I was somewhat surprised to find a PR-B marked plate, identified as a Type-3 for IBM, which was introduced in late Summer/early Fall of 1943 - but not identified as part of NPM assembly

So I did an advanced search, and came across this thread of another NPM: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=61277


There was not much else for the PR-B marked plate, except that it was said a hundred times to be used on IBM. And I found plenty of support which showed rebuilt carbines, or 'corrected' carbines from IBM with the PR-B plate. But danged if I could find a reference to an original IBM carbine with a PR-B recoil plate.

But I digress.

I have a really nice carbine. All parts are matched for age/patina/wear. Only the recoil plate and sear don't fit the scheme. And the sear does not appear on any internet reference, as a B1 marked part. I don't have any book references.

Anyway. I'll start with some pics of the overall gun. I do have all the marked parts pictured as well, but they won't fit in one post with a 20 image limit. I can add them later if needed.

Thanks for any comment on the recoil plate, sear and carbine as a whole. And thanks for looking.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...vnYbNgyl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...atYd4NNl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...508h6HCl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7LlO1Crl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...NNDqucel-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...XAyiOTrl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...vKoiByQl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d41GMPHl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...r9LvyOHl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...YilL5HFl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...76EfU5Ml-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...UWekix8l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5woc9hwl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rRTgM71l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fSsxkyOl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...KFquK7hl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...FSfOUD3l-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 09:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 AM ----------

I guess I should probably show the markings on the two odd parts!

https://i.imgur.com/DFDuatol.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IG14192l.jpg

Martin,

It very well could be correct. There are so many variables with carbines that have not yet been discovered. NPM received well over 50,000 recoil plates from different makers and I not be surprised if they did not get them from IBM too. Just not listed in found data and may never be found. So much data has been destroyed post war time.

IBM is listed as sending NPM 5,000 sears in November 1943. Again they could have sent them some before that were not listed. That is not uncommon to have parts that were never listed. I have an idea that if a parts request went through the Carbine Committee there were records of this but if one maker just called another asking then there may have been no record of it.

I recently picked up a 830,xxx Inland. It has a high-wood stock but no cartouche indicating it has been sanded. Your high-wood has the cartouche and from what I learned from others here, that is a great find!

From reading I did yesterday in Warbaby! there was a connection between the people that set up NPM and IBM. It's not clear to me whether they had been former employees, or if IBM was actually involved at the time. By way of what we now call "networking" someone at NPM could have picked up the phone and asked a former associate at IBM to, "send me some recoil plates." - Bob

Thank you, all.

It is refreshing to hear feedback and commentary about Carbines that aren't adhered to hard-line absolutes!

There are many cases of parts that are undocumented but well established as being used in certain serial number ranges. One such case is QHMC rear sights on IBM carbines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by martin08

Thank you, all.

It is refreshing to hear feedback and commentary about Carbines that aren't adhered to hard-line absolutes!

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They are "absolutely" fun to shoot!

My 5.6 Win has exactly one non Win part, a recoil plate from Underwood. Brian Q. advised that sometimes a single misplaced part is the best evidence of an original carbine. If the gun was "restored" why would the guy leave in an obvious wrong part? Especially a common cheap part? I would also look closely at the part and the stock. If original to the gun, the part will have a definite and obvious etching in the wood under the part. Leaving the fingerprint of the odd part in the wood. My Win was very difficult to remove the recoil plate and there was a very obvious and unique fingerprint in the wood. It was easy to match the two parts.

Something to consider, Parker Manufacturing made recoil plates for several companies, including IBM and NPM.
I have not done the math or timeline, but it may be possible they shipped some of the wrong marked parts to the prime contractor.

B&P Motor Sales made sears for Inland and NPM. I believe these are the B1 marked sears.

I would think the odds of two companies sending wrong marked parts in the same time period winding up on the same carbine is quite high, Then again as mentioned previously they may be undocumented transfers.

Bottom line, if it appears original do not swap out the the parts.

The term "Obvious wrong parts" as Dave points out has ruined some correct carbines as obvious depends on your knowledge level of carbines.

Thank you for the feedback, folks. I will assuredly leave this one as is.

I had an un-messed with all "correct" early Inland from the estate of a WW2 Infantry officer that the only deviation was a Winchester recoil plate from the same time period!