Printable View
Two very obvious faked No4(T)s. First link, most likely a legitimate Savage No4, less telescope. Several spurious marks poorly applied, ruining this rifle.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/949546197
The second link, a put-together T with repro scope pads, mount, scope and cheekpiece. Same spurious markings. And it even comes with a two-groove barrel.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/947635841
Absolutely depressing...
Big scary money too. I'd sure hate to pay huge like that only to find out I bought parts.
They give away allot in their descriptors even for a dunce like me those rifles are not worth anywhere near the asking price, should be a law against selling items that are clearly not ridgey didge. Hope no one gets burned.
Dubious is putting it politely.Quote:
Originally Posted by smle addict
The thing that scares me is that as people pick the errors apart in these rifles, the ones on the production line will improve until it will be VERY difficult to tell if it's real.
Just like a bunch of the stuff floating in the UK and Italy the last 10 years or so...
Come listen to my story 'bout man named Jed,Quote:
Originally Posted by smle addict
A poor moutaineer barely kept his family fed,
Out one day he was working in the shed,
Fixin' up a rifle that started out a zed,
"I'll write a purty story and scope 'er up", he said
"With one o' them there snipers from the mountain that is red",
A little stampin' here and little cold blue there,
and a line of BS that would curl your mother's hair
etc. etc.
:lol:
"Yessir, that there is the reeeeally long range version, had the scope tipped up special like that..."
Quote:
1942 ENFIELD STEVENS SAVAGE No.4 Mk1*(T) SNIPER RIFLE, .303 SAVAGE, UNION OF SOUTH AFRICIA WITH WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE ORIGINAL No.32 MkII, 1944 SCOPE.
RIFLE BY STEVENS COMPANY, RIVER PLANT, CHICOPPE, MASSACHUSETTS IN 1942 FOR USA LEND LEASE TO ENGLAND. VERY LOW SERIAL NUMBER OF 22C8052. ON ARRIVAL IN ENGLAND KEPT IN ARSENAL STORAGE DUE TO HIGH BRITISH ARMY OFFICERS FEELING THAT US PROPERTY STAMPED ON RIFLES WAS NOT GOOD FOR BRITISH TROOP MORALE. RANDOMLY PULLED FROM STORAGE IN 1944. SENT FOR GROUP SHOOTING TEST. PASTED. SENT TO HOLLAND AND HOLLAND FOR CONVERSION TO 1OO% SNIPER RIFLE. (NOTE: HOLLAND AND HOLLAND MARKS ARE STAMPED BY HAND. THOSE HANDSTAMPED MARKS ON HARD RIFLE METAL ARE OFTEN WEAK, SLOPPY AND DOUBLE STAMPED.) RIFLE SENT TO BRITISH COMMONWEALTH UNION OF SOUTH AFRICA ARMY WHICH WAS PART OF ALLIED POWERS IN WORLD WAR II. IN SOUTH AFRICA MACHINE STAMPED WITH BROAD ARROW INSIDE U. SOUTH AFRICA DID NOT HAVE DEDICATED SPECIAL FORCES SNIPER UNITS, ETC UNTIL 1972. SNIPERS WERE SELECTED BY UNIT COMMANDERS FOR THEIR OUTSTANDING SHARPSHOOTING. THEY WERE PLACED WHERE NEEDED, SUCH AS ABE BAILEY'S SHARPSHOOTERS UNIT. THIS RIFLE FOUND ITS WAY TO THE 13th MOTORIZED BRIGADE WHICH WAS A UNIT OF 6th ARMOURED DIVISION. 13th WAS SENT FROM SOUTH AFRICA TO ITALY IN MARCH, 1945 TO REPLACE 24th GUARDS BRIGADE. THE 13th WAS USED IN HEAVY COMBAT IN RUGGED TERRAIN/MOUNTAINS OF NORTH ITALY. 13th SPEARHEADED MAIN FORCES IN RECON. 13th SNIPERS USED TO COUNTER GERMAN SNIPERS AND PANZERFAUST SOLDIERS. (HANDFIRED ROCKET USED AGAINST TANKS.) 13th FOUGHT UNTIL END OF WORLD WAR II, 2 MAY, 1945. RETURNED TO SOUTH AFRICA AND DISBANDED IN 1946. SNIPERS WERE KNOWN TO KEEP THEIR RIFLE/SCOPE AFTER RELEASE FROM SERVICE.
ON SAVAGE RIFLE TYPICAL SQUARED S MACHINE STAMPED MARKINGS. METAL WRIST WITH MACHINE STAMPED SERIAL NUMBER 22C8052, LARGE SAVAGE S, FLAMING BOMB, AND HANDSTAMPED TR. LEFT SIDE OF RECEIVER IS MACHINE MARKED US PROPERTY, BUT THAT MARK MOSTLY COVERED UP BY SNIPER PAD. MACHINE STAMPED No4 Mk1*. AT 11 O'CLOCK POSITION OF EJECTER SCREW HEAD IS HANDSTAMPED HOLLAND & HOLLAND T. THE BOLT HEAD IS SIZE O. BELOW BOLT HEAD ON RECEIVER IS HANDSTAMPED HOLLAND & HOLLAND S MARK. LOOKS LIKE A ONE GROOVE BARREL?? THE BOLT HANDLE STAMPED 22C8052. PARKER HALE SNIPER SLING ROTATING SWIVEL. CORRECT METAL BUTT PLATE. (IF RIFLE HAD BEEN ISSUED TO SOUTH AFRICAN NAVY, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MADE OF BRASS.) SCOPE NUMBER 16187 HANDSTAMPED ON TOP OF WOOD BUTT WRIST. HANDSTAMPED S51 MARK ON BOTTOM OF BUTT. NO IMPORT MARKS. PARKERIZED METAL. ORIGINAL WOOD FINISH, NO VARNISH. REAR SIGHT REMOVED. 13th MOT BDE SAAF, MEANING 13th MOTORIZED BRIGADE SOUTH AFRICA ARMED FORCES ARE HANDSTAMPED ON BOTTOM OF FOREWOOD. SERIAL NUMBER 22C8053 AND 13 M B SAAF ARE HANDSTAMPED ON SCOPE MOUNT WHICH LOOKS LIKE A EARLY CRUDE CAST MOUNT. HAND STAMPED BY INDIVIDUAL UNIT ARMOUR IN SOUTH AFRICA. ORIGINAL CLEANING DEVICE AND OILER IN BUTT STORAGE COMPARTMENT.
LOOKS LIKE AN ORIGINAL 1944, WORLD WAR II BRITISH No.32 MkII, OS.1650A, No. 16187 SNIPER SCOPE. SCOPE APPEARS TO BE ALL THERE. IN AS FOUND SHAPE. OPTICS CLEAR. ONLY ONE SLIGHT DENT IN FRONT SHADE RIM. REALLY NICE LOOKING SCOPE FOR ALL THE BATTLE ACTION IT SAW. PLEASE VIEW SCOPE PHOTOS CAREFULLY.
THE UNION OF SOUTH AFRICA HAD A SMALL ARMED FORCES. I DO NOT LIKE TO USE THE DESCRIPTION "RARE", BUT FEW ENFIELD RIFLES WERE SENT BY ENGLAND TO SOUTH AFRICA. THIS IS THE FIRST SOUTH AFRICAN SNIPER RIFLE I HAVE EVER SEEN. SO, GUESS IT IS RARE! (IF RIFLE HAD BEEN RETURNED TO ENGLAND AFTER WAR, AND RELEASED FOR SALE, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MACHINED STAMPED ENGLAND SO IT COULD BE IMPORTED FOR SALE IN OTHER COUNTRIES. ALSO, END OF BARREL DOES NOT HAVE LONDON PROOF MARKS, AS REQUIRED UPON RELEASE FOR SALE TO PUBLIC. AGAIN, KEPT BY SNIPER AFTER HIS RELEASE FROM SERVICE?)
AS AN ADDED NOTE; BARREL WAS SO PACKED BY COSMOLINE THAT I COULD NOT REMOVE MAGAZINE NOR BOLT. THAT WAS A HUGE JOB TO UNGOO EVERYTHING, BUT, NOW MAGAZINE AND BOLT WORK AS THEY SHOULD. MY GUNSMITH SAID BARREL WAS ONE GROOVE. I GOT NEW BORE INSPECTION LIGHT AND WAS VERY SURPRISED TO SEE A BORE AS SHINNY AND SPOTLESSLY CLEAN AS A MIRROR. I MAKEOUT TWO VERY THIN LINES. SO, MY GUESS IS IT WAS TWO GROOVE ONE TIME. I HAVE NOT CHECKED WITH MY GUNSMITH, BUT IF ONE WANTED TO USE AS A SHOOTER THEN BARREL WOULD HAVE TO BE RELINED OR ANOTHER BARREL PUT ON. A LOT OF SAVAGE BARRELS ARE AVAILABLE. AS FOR ME, I SEE AS A PIECE OF HISTORY AND WOULD LEAVE AS IS. IF ANYONE WANTS TO MAKE ME AN OFFER, PLEASE DO?
CERTIFIED BANK CHECK ONLY. I WILL HOLD SHIPMENT UNTIL CHECK CLEARS. FFL TO FFL ONLY. UPS GROUND ONLY. CHARGE $125 DUE TO HIGH COST OF INSURANCE. SIGNATURE REQUIRED. NO P.O. BOXES. NO SALES TO ALASKA, CALIFORNIA, NOR HAWAII. NO REFUNDS/RETURNS. PHOTOS SHOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU GET. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST.
Heck Surpmil that looks like a 60-80 moa set up for super long range shots wonder who fitted the pads, the apprentice perhaps.
Some minor discrepancies in the military history there.
Good to know that the movement of a rifle in 6 Armd Div was so minutely recorded that the whereabouts of one rifle was known.
I doubt that a 'few Enfield' rifles were sent to South Africa. What did the troops train with then?
Also, the South African forces were always know by UDF [Union Defence Force] not SAAF. SAAF was always the SA Air Force.
The 13th Mot Bde was formed in Italy, not in South Africa.
Baileys sharpshooters was a privately raised body of sharpshooters in WWI, numbering 24 at the start in about 1916 and decreasing from arrival at the front in France.