M1879 Remington Lee without magazine.

Always wanted one of these to complement my LE collection and this one was so cheap I couldn't pass. Appears to be very complete excepting magazine. Before starting what will probably be a multi-year search for one I thought I would pose the question- is there any alternative to finding one of the original two types made for this model- ie. can a later version be modified to work in a '79? I've attached a couple of the sellers photos as I'm still waiting for the mailman to drop it off. Thanks for any help.

Ridolpho

I saw that for sale and then disappear...YOU got it. Good luck on the mag...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I saw that for sale and then disappear...YOU got it. Good luck on the mag...

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BAR: I've got lots of patience- just found an original M1893 Turk Mauser rear sight leaf after two years of looking. At least everything else appears to be there and seller claimed a good bore". The only Rem-Lees I've seen for sale locally have been the later models with front locking lugs added which is a pretty big divergence from the LE.

Ridolpho

That extractor is built like a truck were these Le's like a controlled round feed as looking at that claw there seems to be no way that would jump over the rim of a cartridge in a mis-feed.
I would not like to break on if thats possible it appears to be a major component of the bolt.

Cinders: Yes, pretty solid looking extractor. I would imagine it does give controlled feed but, having never seen one in person, I'm only guessing. As to breakage, from the quick bit of scanning around I've done, it would appear many parts fro this original model are next to impossible to find. probably the ideal situation would be to find a badly done sporter that has all the key parts and use it as a donor.

Ridolpho

I do not know if the mags are interchangeable, but I suspect thety are not. They certainly LOOK different, having no guide ribs. GREAT find by the way - I guess that is one of the original 300 made by Sharps? Do you have Gene Myszkowski's book? If you do not, you need to get it.

Dick: Yes, I've had that book for a long time. The only previous opportunities I've had at buying one were either sporterized or the final version with the front lugs added on the bolt. Just received the rifle in the mail and am very surprised at the overall good condition. Bore is very good.

Ridolpho

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Originally Posted by Ridolpho

Just received the rifle in the mail and am very surprised at the overall good condition. Bore is very good.

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We could sure use a good photo heavy op here...would be good for future reference...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

We could sure use a good photo heavy op here...would be good for future reference...

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Will do that soon, BAR. It does look forlorn without a mag! A couple of Milsurps members have generously helped in the search for a mag, but no luck yet.

Ridolpho

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

We could sure use a good photo heavy op here...would be good for future reference...

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Not to rob from any photo efforts from Ridolpho, which would surely be welcomed, but here's a link to an old thread of mine with a large number of somewhat useful photos:


1879 Remington Lee Photos, etc. (Warning! LOTS of big photos)



Let's see if I can paste an old image from another thread here:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...stuff079-1.jpg
Excellent! Because all of my 1879 photos are otherwise locked away in the P'bucket fiasco or are on a long lost memory card..
Note that the 1885 type magazines (at the bottom) are rather longer to accommodate the 500gr loads, so no joy getting them to work in an 1879.

As promised, here are a few shots of the rifle. I have now stripped it to inspect and found no pitting below the woodline. It's a piece of luck that no former owners aggressively cleaned this rifle. The barrel and receiver have some remaining bluing but heavily patinated with a touch of rust. All I've done is wipe it down with an oily rag. As mentioned above, the bore is great. Overall it is in very good mechanical condition and, so-far, everything seems correct. From a quick glance at a book on .45-70 Springfields it appears many of the parts were borrowed from the Trapdoor line- sights, bands, maybe barrel? Also appears to be some kind of oval cartouche on the stock that resembles those on contemporary "Springfields". I didn't bother to photograph pieces while disassembled as jmoore's thread on these rifles covers it all. It is fascinating to contrast this rifle with the earliest bona-fide Lee-Enfields (Lee-Metford Mk I) to see what survivied and what was significantly changed. Now, if I can just locate a magazine!

Ridolpho

Nice looking old rifle...

It took me about ten years to find mine. Finally found one on Gun Broker for $35.00.

Have you tried S&S (they have mentioned that from time to time that they have one-off items not advertised) or perhaps Hayes Otoupalik?

I recently purchased a nice 1897 from Collector's Firearms. It was without a magazine and had an incorrect ramrod made from what appears to be a cut-down 50/70 rod. I purchased a magazine from S&S but it turned out to be for the longer .43 Spanish cartridge. I did find a proper magazine in comparable condition to the rifle but it set me back $300. I also found a bayonet for it but no scabbard. The bayonet is 24" overall so its longer than a trapdoor bayonet. This makes since since the rifle is shorter by about the same amount. I purchased a repro 1855 R-L ramrod from S&S. It is perfect, or will be once it's been shortened about 3" to 3-1/4". I also have a R-L cartridge belt that I suspect is a for a model 1899. I've installed an early trapdoor sling on it but it is too long to draw up tight. I have a couple of questions:
Does anyone know what sling the Navy used on these rifles?
Does anyone know where I can get good a book covering these rifles and accessories?
Thanks

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Originally Posted by Brit-Tex

a nice 1897

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That's a REALLY nice one...

Michigan Naval Reserves on parade at Campus Martius, Detroit, Michigan, Decoration Day, 1895. Men are armed with Remington-Lee rifles in .45-70. Naval Reserves do not have magazines inserted in rifles.

Michigan State Troops around 1900 with model 1899 Remington-Lee rifles in .30-40. Sgt. in group shot has a Krag.

I imagine the slings are like Rolling-Block slings.
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Ridolpho
I just happened to be scanning one of my favorite auction sites and saw something that will interest you. Cowan Auctions in Cincinatti is having an auction on Sept 12th I believe, the item I think you should pay attention to is item 322 A Mills web belt with 5 pouches, each containing a Remington Lee magazine and also has loops with several original cartridges. Look at their website and click on upcomming auctions. Starting bid is 250 Good luck!!!

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Originally Posted by #1oilman

Cowan Auctions in Cincinatti

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Check this out...

Rare Remington Lee Mills Belt With Four Magazines | Cowan's Auction House: The Midwest's Most Trusted Auction House / Antiques / Fine Art / Art Appraisals

There might be hope. A couple of years ago there was a bunch of Remington Lee and Lee Navy parts at the Ward's auction in Edmonton. I had no actual use for them so I passed but I am sure there was a 1879 mag in the lot. Post on CGN with a WTB you never know what will turn up. You know that you have a hoarding problem when you haven't seen the top of your snooker table for ten years

#1oilman: Thanks for mentioning this auction but I'm pretty sure those are the later type magazine which seem to be readily available. If you look back at jmoore's earlier post in this thread you'll see the difference. And Mr. Moose- I'm not sure why I hadn't put a WTB on CGN but I'm going to do it today. In the meantime I've followed englishman.ca's lead and made myself a wooden dummy mag for display purposes. The rifle looks better after a very light oily rag cleanup and I'm going to resist any temptation to clean it aggressively. I think it's quite original. Regards.

Ridolpho

Have you found a lee cook mag yet? I have one that I could sell.

osebud: Haven't found one yet. PM sent.

Ridolpho

Attachment 102489Attachment 102490Attachment 102491Attachment 102492A final post to wrap up this thread. A very generous forum member offered me a Lee-Cook magazine body (with functioning cartridge retaining tab) for a very decent price. It fits perfectly and, based on jmoore's photos, I was able to quickly create a functional spring and follower. Turns out an SMLE mags spring resembles that in these early Rem-Lee magazines although it needs to be cut apart, each leaf ground down, and the whole lot riveted together. As shown on the attached photos the gun now looks complete! I've photographed it with the mag in the first or lower position where the cartridges do not feed. The user simply slaps it up into the second position which pushes down on the small button which retracts the tab that holds the cartridges in a loose magazine. I suspect I will succumb to the temptation to load up some BP rounds and give this a test at the range.

Ridolpho

Gorgeous rifle! If you give in, I'd love to hear how she shoots!

Great Pictures. Now all you need is a Model 1882,1885, and a 1899 in 30/40 to complete the collection.

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Originally Posted by AGB-1

Great Pictures. Now all you need is a Model 1882,1885, and a 1899 in 30/40 to complete the collection.

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AGB-1: I'll be 150 years old before I see examples of those come up for sale up here! If I had to have another it would probably be the 1885 as, I believe, it was the last one available to the British before they came up with the"Magazine Lee Metford" Mk I. However, even this M'79 makes for an interesting comparison with my 1889 MLM Mk I*. Regards.

Ridolpho

Really well done on your project, what a beautiful rifle, stunning!

Its the holy grail of Enfield collecting, the godfather!

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

Its the holy grail of Enfield collecting, the godfather!

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The only other Rem-Lees (of any model) that I've come across were sporterized. Probably pure luck that this one escaped the saw. It came up, out of the blue, on a forum sales page up here and I bought it immediately at the asking price which was very low. It is entertaining to look at the similarities (and differences) between this and Lee Metford/ Lee Enfield rifles. The big difference, of course, is the change to the two-piece stock- about which change very little seems to be documented. The author of the "Enfield Pattern Room Catalogue" suggests that this change was to make use of inventory of Martini-Henry butt and forend blanks. It seems rather major alteration to the basic rifle design with the former recoil lugs now essentially used to clamp the forend to the front of the butt-socket. I've not read much about the actual use of the various Remington-Lee models- did they have problems with cracking stocks? The grip area (on the Rem-Lee) does feel a bit chunky compared to any Lee-Enfield but I think anyone whose had to repair a few broken LE forends would agree they're not a perfect design either.

Ridolpho

I have probably only seen six "model 1899" Remington-Lee, (.30-40 caliber Small Bore Smokeless Military Rifles), that were part of the contract for the State of Michigan.

Half of these rifles had cracked stocks. The damage occurred in the wrist and in the area behind the action. I have seen a number of sporting rifles and cut-down model 1899 rifles that exhibited the same stock injuries

I know that the Michigan State Troops were very unhappy with the Remington-Lee and that it had an incredibly short career.

I recently acquired a Michigan National Guard Remington-Lee. It had been used as a 'Floor Lamp' and was missing Bolt and Magazine, but, it was full-length and the stock was not broken. I was able to complete the Michigan rifle with parts from a desecrated sporting model, with excessive head-space and a damaged wrist area.

IMHO - The model 1899 design made poor provision to allow the stock to support the barreled/action and absorb recoil. The result was a lot of stocks failed with breaks and chips that carried into the wrist.

The first two photos show my Michigan .30-40 Remington-Lee. The third photo shows the typical stock break on another Remington-Lee model 1899.

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Can you post a Range Report on the 1879? Pictures would be nice also.Thanks,
AGB-1