A study of No.4 Mk.I "Trials" rifles: information requested!

We've discussed these in numerous threads over the years and the other day I finally got irritated enough by the 'information diaspora' to start an Excel spreadsheet- which first showed me how chaotic my own gleanings about this subject were!

I now have about 50 rifle serial numbers gleaned from old postings, auctions etc. going back about fourteen years. The beauty of these spreadsheets is that patterns often emerge from the data that are otherwise undiscernable.

The details I've collected so far are:

1. Serial number
2. Date (& last digit separately struck?)
3. Status (No.4 Mk.I(T) or No.4 Mk.I)
4. Bracket (N92, JG etc.)
5. Screws staked? (pad screws obviously)
6. "T" & "TR" stamps? (added later obviously, but patterns might emerge)
7. Original No32 number (from the buttstock if present and #s legible)
8. Proof marks
9. Misc. details/notes

Suggestions for other relevant details that would be worth recording are welcome.

I have been recording owner's "handles" or initials because as new details emerge to be recorded one has to go back and forth through the data and photos and it can be hard to keep track, but that of course won't be made public.

Those of us who are willing to provide that data about their rifles, or others they have seen, please PM me or post here if you prefer.

As I came across No1 MkVI Rifles in my records and No4 MkI rifles built on No1 MkVI bodies I started recording those also, but probably we should make that a separate study as the relevant details to record need to be decided on.

The spreadsheet will be made available in whatever way contributors prefer, so input is sought here about that also.

Spreadsheet database updated with current information received as of October 5th, 2014 at 3:00 pm EST

---------------IF THE PDF IS BLANK CLICK HERE TO VIEW.---------------

Surpmil,

Another Number for you, It was in a Scotarms auction, a Trials 1931 No4 Mk1, serial No A0676. A really nice example.

1. A0676
2. 1931 (all one date IIRC)
3. No4 Mk1
4. NA
5. NA
6. NA
7. NA
8. ?
9. sold at Auction May 2012 complete with a PH 5C sight.

1. A0972, (on your list)
2. 1933
3. No.4Mk.1T
4. Mismatch JG w/Watson Mk.1 scope
5. No
6. No
7. 1024
8. British commercial proofs present. England export stamp on top of the receiver ring.
9. Purchased without a scope. Unaltered from what I can see with it's original barrel. It has a brass marking disc from it's pre sneer days marked V/6.33, 5 EK/972.

---------- Post added at 02:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 PM ----------

should read - "pre sniper days"

Surpmil, do you require photos of wrist band markings? I have A2306 and A1038. You are welcome to pics if required.

Thank you Lance for your 32 serial numbers provided by PM! I have removed the "owner/informant" column for now, but 10 or 11 of your numbers were previously unknown to me and are now incorporated and credited.

Thank you BigDuke, Brian & Chosenman for those numbers.

Here is the list at present; additions and corrections gratefully received. My PDF converter program crapped out after this conversion and the "notes" were unfortunately cut off. Will see if I can fix this later. Ignore the No1 MkVI notes at the bottom of page 2.;)

Note that some entries appear meaningless without the owner info, but refer to rifles seen or reported that need to be checked with the owner or former owner.

(List removed for editing)

Rob, I have the following.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...b7191906-1.jpg
1. A1038 (on your list)
2. 1933 (last digit looks to have been struck later)
3. No. 4 Mk. 1 (no T stamp)
4. Rose Brothers JC bracket re-numbered to match
5. Yes
6. TR only
7. 1568 barred out above current number
8. British proof marks with ENGLAND stamp on the wrist
9. FTR'd

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5355ab6f-1.jpg

1. A2306 (on your list)
2. 1931
3. No. 4 Mk. 1 T stamped
4. Rose Bros JC marked re-numbered to match
5. yes
6. T and TR both present on the wrist
7. No
8. British proof marks with ENGLAND stamped on the wrist
9. FTR'd. Woodwork is all Canadian ordnance marked with fixtures & fitting being LB

I removed the spreadsheet for revision and because it was not very useful in that PDF I hurriedly created. I have sent it to Doug and I hope he is equipped software wise to present it in a clearer form shortly.

Moderator Edit: See FIRST post in this thread. Spreadsheet database has been added and will be updated as new iterations are received from Surpmil

Updates continue, we're up to 70 rifles with 15 of those being unconverted to "T" specs. Lots of blanks on the form yet which hopefully will get filled in. Suggestions for other details to record are welcome. (Doing yours now Chosenman!)

This business of the last digit of the date being struck separately I am not 100% sure about anymore as if one looks at the last character on the lines above and below that, they are sometimes deeply struck as well, which must be due to the punch being struck more heavily on that side. I do believe some ARE separately struck, but it takes some looking to decide which are which.

Rob,

A1631 is currently on Gunauction.com at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chosenman

Rob,

A1631 is currently on Gunauction.com at the moment.

---

I couldn't find it listed - do you have a link?

Badger, I've sent you the wrong file! I'll send the updated one now.:o

1. Eliminated "bracket" column as all had Rose Bros. brackets originally AFAIK and we're not trying to log present status where it doesnt' tell anything about the original issue or service life.
2. Added column for SBN number, if present (might tell us something)
3. Added column for barrel date. (ditto)
4. Added column for cocking piece (No4 or No1 MkVI) This may seem trivial, but without a column for easy comparison with action date etc. it is hard to discern any patterns in details like this.

So for ease of communication:

1. Rifle serial number
2. Date on butt socket
3. Status: No4 MkI(T) or No4 MkI
4. Cocking piece: No1 MkVI pattern with cross-screw or No4 MkI pattern ('button type')
5. Barrel date: two digits found on left side of barrel under rear handguard, near Nock's Form.
6. Steel Batch Number: "SBN 165" etc. found on underside of bolt handle.
7. Other Marks: such as "ENGLAND" export mark, "FTR" for "Factory Thorough Repair", or the "TR" marks sometimes added retroactively.
8. Proofs: proof marks such as found on the barrel near the muzzle, the bolt handle and "receiver ring"; that is proofs other than the originals.
9. Location of proof marks
10. Staked, ie: the scope pad screws on the No4 MkI(T) rifles. This SOP was introduced in the UK in the late 40s acc. to Peter so it's presence or absence may tell us something about the history of these rifles
11. "T" stamp: needs no explanation except to say none are original and there are variations.
12. Original Tel. No.: is found on the wrist of the butt just below the cocking piece. Obviously only on the original butts and only where they have not been sanded out or totally overstruck.
13. Maker: of the original No32 where that number is present to allow the deduction of the maker.
14. Tel.: the present scope number fitted - this is not historically relevant, but may help to keep things straight!

Blimey, what an exercise this is turning out to be!

Rob, This should take you there.
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/130232...ifle-and-scope

Got it thanks. Trigger guard loop for action cover is present I see; I remember that one or both of mine had none and that appeared to be from the factory...another column coming up!

I think we discussed this matter once or perhaps it was just in connection with No4 MkI(T)s in general rather than the trials rifles? Anyone remember?

L42 I think.

Here is a trials rifle not converted to a sniper.

http://usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=43673

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by superbee

Here is a trials rifle not converted to a sniper.

http://usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=43673

---

Quote:

---

Calibre/Item: 303
Make: Enfield
Model: Trials Rifle
Action: Bolt repeater
Serial No: 27710-A
Condition: Excellent
Price: $6000
Advertised: 3/10/2014
Licence number: 53082
Phone: 0458 644 527
Comment: This rifle was originally a 1931 trials rifle that was upgraded during WWII to No IV configurations. This rifle has not been fired since upgrade and is in excellent condition. Very rare rifle in Australia. $6000 ONO
Transfering dealer: Tex Gun Supplies, Berrimah NT

---

Thanks, looks like a late trials body left over that was finished at BSA in 1941. It has the "Model C" back sight modification: what later became the standard for the No4.

Just found in my notes.
1931 trials sniper # A2351 converted to L42A1 in 1971

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by superbee

Just found in my notes.
1931 trials sniper # A2351 converted to L42A1 in 1971

---

Thanks for that one! I do have it logged as being ex-Val Forgett collection and green painted.

Updated list to be posted shortly.

Attached is the web address

http://usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=43673

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doctor1

Attached is the web address

http://usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=43673

---

Thanks, we've got that one in post 13 & 14 above.

Here is the information on my trials rifle

S/N A1424
Date 1931
Status 4T
Bracket. B30544 from another rifle.
Staked. No (pads)
T stamp. No T stamp, nor TR stamp
Original scope number from wrist. 3193
Matching. Rifle is marching but bracket and scope are not.
Proofs. Metal parts and stock are heavily proofed with Enfield proofs.
Owner. Snipershot1944@yahoo.com
Notes. Has cutoff.

Thank you David, I am adding that to the list right now and it will be in the next revision.

And generally, just to reiterate, these are the details we're logging:

1. Rifle serial number
2. Date on butt socket
3. Status: No4 MkI(T) or No4 MkI
4. Cocking piece: No1 MkVI pattern with cross-screw or No4 MkI pattern ('button type')
5. Barrel date: two digits found on left side of barrel under rear handguard, near Nock's Form.
6. Steel Batch Number: "SBN 165" etc. found on underside of bolt handle.
7. Other Marks: such as "ENGLAND" export mark, "FTR" for "Factory Thorough Repair", or the "TR" marks sometimes added retroactively.
8. Proofs: proof marks such as found on the barrel near the muzzle, the bolt handle and "receiver ring"; that is proofs other than the originals.
9. Location of proof marks
10. Staked, ie: the scope pad screws on the No4 MkI(T) rifles. This SOP was introduced in the UKicon in the late 40s acc. to Peter so it's presence or absence may tell us something about the history of these rifles
11. "T" stamp: needs no explanation except to say none are original and there are variations.
12. Original Tel. No.: is found on the wrist of the butt just below the cocking piece. Obviously only on the original butts and only where they have not been sanded out or totally overstruck.
13. Maker: of the original No32 where that number is present to allow the deduction of the maker.
14. Tel.: the present scope number fitted - this is not historically relevant, but may help to keep things straight!

Here are the basics of my two Trials 4T's. IIR I'll add additional info when I can sort it out.

1931. A2144. 4 click rear sight. Matching bolt with transverse striker keeper screw. Mag is a replacement but all other parts are original AFAIK.
Scope serial on butt is indistinct but I think probably reads 4621. Rifle came to me sans scope & bracket, though with pads intact.

1933. A0075. 6 click rear sight. Some replacement parts including bolt, though all appears to have been done long ago & probably whilst still in service.
Butt original & rifle looks to have been fitted with scope no 3167. As with other rifle this one came sans scope & bracket. Body pads are original.

ATB.

P.S. Both have correct waisted foresight protectors & cut-offs. (Your post reminded me, thanks Blurred Edge!).

Hello, my Trials T details are :-

1. A0242
2. 1933
3. No4 Mk1(T)
4. No4 Mk1
5. Rebarreled 1950's???
6. SBN 165 original bolt
7. No other marks on action, Large T on wood wrist below scope No
8. None other than originals
9. Receiver ring, bolt handle by serial No, barrel knox.
10. No staking

Also it has the correct pattern cut off fitted
Unmarked bracket
Waisted foresight protector
Enfield 6 click sight elevation knob
Forend not original but early type
Magazine not original

All I can think of for now
11. No T stamp
12. No 1035
13. Watson Mk1
14. Watson mK1 No 1035

Thank you Roger & BlurredEdge! BlurredEdge you seem to have one of the very few complete originals; do you have any history on the rifle if I may ask?

No I'm afraid not, got it from a friend. Can't be too sure on originality as all the wood is heavily sanded with no markings left, it's early woodwork but not trials pattern bits.

Just to be a bit clearer on my previous rushed post (was at work), I think the butt may be original but heavily sanded,it as the marking disc and looks right. but the rest is post trials.
As far as I know it came from a now deceased dealer, to another dealer to a friend of mine. All a good few years ago now.
Regards. Matt

Just purchased no.A1515 will post some pictures shortly although apart from the stock all is original

Sorry, but can't seem to load the photos up from my iPad. The rifle is a beauty, the only issue is that the original stock has been replaced with a long SMLE stock of a lighter colour, other than that the rifle is totally complete with all original parts inc the barrel. It has the No.1 mk.VI cocking piece and Mk. VI magazine. The other parts inc sight, cut off, woodwork, bands, waisted foresight, trigger etc are all EFD marked. I don't think this has seen any active service or use as the rifling is shart and crisp. The rifle is dated 1931. Looking to get a sling ideally dated around the same period if anybody has any ideas? Cheers, Steve

You need to put pics onto photo bucket or similar or I think you load them to your profile ??

I set the album to "public" for a bit. Root through and pull what info you need. Short on time lately!:


http://s20.photobucket.com/user/dave...?sort=2&page=1

Just realized that you have my rifle info #A1374 listed under my name rayg but listed in the last remark column/area as "AKA Ryan". Please be advised that "Ryan" is not me but a different individual. Ray

Again I was never known as Ryan, (AKA Ryan), and unless Ryan had also owned the rifle at one time, that name should be removed to keep the information correct, Ray

Just a correction to the spread sheet, I own A0350 and have for about 25 years, it's a non-sniper.

There is A0507 credited to 'eleanori' which is myuser name over at Gunboards. I do not own that rifle or ever have.

Here is one on gunbroker #A1400

PRE WWII BRITISH ENFIELD NO. 4 MK 1 (T) TRIALS RIF : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com

Here is another non-sniper trials:

LOT #1639 - ENFIELD WALNUT STOCK NO. 4 MK I BOLT ACTION RIFLE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by superbee

Here is another non-sniper trials:

LOT #1639 - ENFIELD WALNUT STOCK NO. 4 MK I BOLT ACTION RIFLE.

---

Quote:

---

Cal. 303. S# A0831. Bbl. 25 1/4". Enfield marked with large crown King George proof mark on left side of receiver band above triggerguard. Also fitted with a Parker Hale peep sight, and 1931 mag. cutoff. Consignors tag indicates this was a Trials rifle which won the King's prize. British proof marks in evidence on receiver marked "ENFIELD / 31 / No 4 MK I" above S#. Stock marked with "13" regiment proof mark as well a broad arrow proof. Stock matches S#. Brass mounted leather sling attached. MAGS: 1 orig. 10 rd. box blued steel. CONDITION: extremely fine to near excellent refinished matte blued finish with some barely noticeable pitting underneath the blue on left side of receiver with some very small areas of scuffing on mag. revealing bare metal & some tiny areas of brown patina. Stock has been sanded & refinished with a longitudinal 1 1/2" long crack on left side from the receiver band toward the muzzle. Middle sling screw has been damaged by improper screwdriver use. Bolt is mostly in the white except for the right side exterior of the locking bar and the bolt handle itself. Buttplate has been polished to the white with British proof mark & broad arrow visible at heel. Rifled bore is good to very good with some slight darkness starting in the grooves. (15-3274/JWK). CURIO. Price realized $3172.50 USD

---

This is one of the Model C trials rifles prepared in 1935. Notice the sling swivel loop on the trigger guard, aluminum buttplate and relief cut for the rear sight to the standard No4 depth to allow the use of the backsight plunger, rather than the detent ball found on other trials rifles.

Pity about the Central sight base screw hole through the butt socket.

Here is another trials sniper A2065

British Lee SMLE 1931 Enfield trials rifle sniper : Antique Guns at GunBroker.com

Photos saved - muzzle appears to have a very slight downward cant(?)

Citizen Bubba strikes again. The pads now lying in some forgotten drawer or thrown out with the rest of his "junk" when Bubba went to the great Goodwill Industries in the sky!

Thought i would share some photos of A1515 which is in excellent condition and all original apart from the stock which has replaced the original one due i think to the fact that this SMLE is a long butt

Another trials sniper A2089

PRE WWII BRITISH NO.4 MKI (T) ENFIELD TRIALS RIFLE : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com

A very nice Trials No. 4 MK. I converted to T. Proper Enfield examiner stamp on top of the front pad. Who won the auction?

#A2065 is on gunbroker

British Lee SMLE 1931 Enfield trials rifle sniper : Antique Guns at GunBroker.com

---------- Post added at 08:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 AM ----------

# A2233 is also on gunbroker

BSA Enfield No 4 Mk. I (T) 1931 Sniper Rifle : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com

1. Serial number A 1989
2. Date (& last digit separately struck?) 1931
3. Status (No.4 Mk.I(T) or No.4 Mk.I) No. 4 MK. I (T)
4. Bracket (N92, JG etc.) Rose Brothers "JG" numbered to rifle, though this is the second rifle to which it was mated as an earlier SN is cancelled out.
5. Screws staked? (pad screws obviously) Pad screws are NOT staked, yet this rifle remained in British Army service until at least 1963.
6. "T" & "TR" stamps? (added later obviously, but patterns might emerge) "T" with serifs on left sidewall midway between front pad and ejector screw, "TR" on socket in usual location below serial number.
7. Original No32 number (from the buttstock if present and #s legible) 25455 - that area has an old grafted in wood section army repair like we often see where the butt plate attaches to the butt. This later scope was fitted during F.T.R. and no number remains for first scope fitted.
8. Proof marks
9. Misc. details/notes Enfield examiner's stamp on top of the front scope pad. "F.T.R." (Factory Thorough Repair, i.e. an arsenal overhaul/rebuild) on left side of socket. "/45" dated barrel. No. 32 MK. 3 scope SN 25455 matching in-service and No. 8 MK. 2 canvas scope case is numbered to rifle and scope. Inspection stickers (set of 4) most recent packing date 2/7/63 RIFLE NO. A. 1989 TELESCOPE Serial No. 25455, Packer's Name "EF". High wood fore end. has M1907 sling. Bolt has MK. II cocking piece. Foresight guard is a MK. II. Upper band is not hinged. Magazine cut-off removed. Original EFD monogram marked MK. I modified backsight, further modified to allow bolt to be removed without raising the backsight. (Modification shown in Peter Laidler's book "An Armourer's Perspective" pp. 81-82, the only one I have seen so modified) This is a complete equipment - Matching in service rifle body, rifle fore end, bolt, scope, bracket, scope case and magazine. Chest is not numbered to the rifle (no paper end tag) but may be the original as the old marking is visible "TEL SGT MK 1" on bottom right of front. Yes, there is a yellow circular blob on top of the chest.

Just as matter of interest you will find a mounted No4.Mk.1 (T) "Trials " rifle hanging on the wall at the School of Infantry, Waiouru Military Camp. It is presented to the top qualifier at the Sniper Instructors Course run by the School. It was manufactured in 1933 and it's Mk32 scope was manufactured in 1941 - it was equipped with a cut off
I have some knowledge of this weapon as I was issued with it when attending the instructors course in 1978. This was the last course to use the Lee Enfield as the next course used the Parker Hale M82
It still shot well enough but the scope was a problem as it was (as I understand it) one of scopes made for use with the Bren - consequently it did not have the fine increment adjustments of the other scopes on the other rifles and would ' lose it's way ' past about 450 yards. A tendency to fill up with water when it was raining did not help either.
I finally gave up on it and borrowed a rifle from a fellow student to complete the final qualifying badge test.
It was a long time ago but I still rate the course as one of the hardest things I ever did !

Glad to see you've taken this over Colin, you'll do a better job of it I'm sure. ;)

It is definitely a team effort!

Here is some info on A1355

1931 Trials Rifle | The Firearms Forum

---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:36 AM ----------

Info on A0754

1933 Enfield No 4 Mk I (T) Trials Rifle, A0754

trials sniper A0229

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/739581743

Another one A1859

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/741919318

Do you have A2051 on your list? Manufactured 1931, converted to T, has pads but no scope. Has been through FTR as has replacement bolt I think and later pattern wood.

Yes, thankyou, I had A 2051 listed from when you acquired it "boltaction."

Trials # A1986

Enfield - 4MK1-Rifle Firearms Auction Lot-2622

A 1986 is also listed as A 1689 later in their listing. Obviously one is wrong but RIA only show one photo and it does not show the SN.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by superbee

Trials # A1986

Enfield - 4MK1-Rifle Firearms Auction Lot-2622

---

A1463

Lee Enfield No 4 T, trial rifle (sniper conversion - Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com : 791541443

I'm the one that's adding A1463 to my Enfield family. Looking forward to having it in hand in hopefully about a week!

I hate being the bad guy. A1463 is a garage rebuild job. Pads, barrel, furniture all replaced. Pic's of her original appearance from my records. Sorry....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seaforth72

A 1986 is also listed as A 1689 later in their listing. Obviously one is wrong but RIA only show one photo and it does not show the SN.

---

I too was questioning the possible typo, so I asked for more photo's. Unfortunately, too fishy for me.

Rifle s/n matches bolt. Scope mount (renumbered during FTR) matches scope case. Scope case not original to anything but paired up during preservation for storage by "Ball" (which is ok too). Scope s/n stamped into butt.....bubba??

Too many inconsistencies for my dollar.

Eh, not the end of the world. I didn't pay much for it and it'll do to fill the trials rifle gap (at least the receiver!) until I find a proper one. Will be picking it up next Friday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 303 Gunner

Eh, not the end of the world. I didn't pay much for it and it'll do to fill the trials rifle gap (at least the receiver!) until I find a proper one. Will be picking it up next Friday.

---

Assume you decided to return it? It just re-sold:

Lee Enfield No 4 T, trial rifle (sniper conversion - Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com : 794943131

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bigwagon

Assume you decided to return it? It just re-sold:

Lee Enfield No 4 T, trial rifle (sniper conversion - Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com : 794943131

---

Yes, when it came in, it was pretty rough. The shop owner was kind enough to let me return it.

The stock disc was very roughly inletted with chunks missing out of the wood around it and there were finger prints in the wood from where someone had used stain on it. Also, the stock had a very odd rough texture to it and the pistol grip didn't feel shaped properly. Certainly unlike any of my other No. 4's in both texture and shape. I have no idea what was going on there. The pads had certainly been remounted and looked like someone had been after the screws on the forward pad with a punch.

A1392

1931 Trials Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1T .303 Sniper - Curios Relics at GunBroker.com : 827070356

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by superbee

A1392

1931 Trials Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1T .303 Sniper - Curios Relics at GunBroker.com : 827070356

---

A1392 is coming to Canada.

Looking for some Enfield parts for it, especially Enfield made wasp waist foresight guard, EFD hinged upper band (have an unmarked one coming), EFD backsight with ball bearing set-up on underside and EFD made No. 4 magazine with EFD monogram on spine and "VI" on follower. Prefer Enfield made wasp waist but will consider a Long Branch one. Had one on a lovely 1941 Long Branch but as she was completely original, I left her unaltered. I found a wasp waist on a friend's mid-war rifle and convinced him to sell it to another friend who has a Long Branch No. 4 Mk. I which needed that part.

I just reviewed the chart on the Trials rifles and I realized I had answered NO in the column where it asks "matching" at the top of the page thinking it was referring to the scope matching as the scope is not. However if that question was referring to the rifle's serial being matching and not the scope, be advised the rifle itself has all original matching numbers. If that question was asking about the rifle and not the scope, is there anyway that information can be corrected on the chart to yes to reflect that the rifle is all matching? Ray
A1374 1931 No4(T) Rose Bros. No No 6041 KL 14603 WW (No) rayg "Mk.VI magazine".

#1392 for sale on gun boards

WTS 1931 Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk. IT Trials Sniper Rifle

No.4 Mk. I (T) serial number A1392 was SOLD and it is coming to Canada.

I’ve just purchased A1971. I pick it up on Monday. More details to follow.

Full Bore, Service and Sniper Rifles for Sale - Devizes Gunsmith

A1842 offered here. Has obviously gone through the South Asian refurbishment program involving being scraped with a broken hacksaw blade and painted with black goop with a bill-paster's brush.

Mismatching bracket number M33892, but seems to have the original backsight and butt. It's noticeable how much closer the fitting of the front of the cheekrest is compared to later No.4(T)s.

Hi

1. A1971 (Not 1972 as I mistakenly wrote in the Header)
2. 1931
3. No4 MkI(T)
4. Button type
5. 1945 Long Branch
6. Can’t see one
7. ENGLAND on the right and F.T.R. and TR on the left of butt socket. Also an ‘N’ on top of butt socket. Lots of Enfield acceptance marks.
8. Just the usual BNP
9.
10. The front scope pad screws are staked. The front scope pad appears to be original and has an Enfield acceptance mark on the front top of it
11. No
12. Absent. Appears to have had new wood at some point a log time ago, possibly when FTR’d?
13.
14. 2035, a Mk3 in a Canadian marked bracket which is marked to the rifle.

Hope that helps.

1. Serial number A 0488
2. Date (& last digit separately struck?) receiver and barrel 1930 - too faint to tell if separately struck.
3. Status (No.4 Mk.I(T) or No.4 Mk.I) Rifle is a No.4 Mk.I(T)
4. Cocking piece. SM button type.
5. Bracket (N92, JG etc.). Nil
5. Screws staked? (pad screws obviously). Yes. Pads original to rifle.
6. "T" & "TR" stamps? (added later obviously, but patterns might emerge). T stamp in middle of LH receiver wall and stamped over date on LH butt socket.
7. Original No32 number (from the buttstock if present and #s legible). Nil.
8. Proof marks. EFD barrel and receiver proof and inspection stamps. No commercial / export proofs.
9. Misc. details/notes. Nil.

1. Rifle serial number: A1512
2. Date on butt socket: 1931
3. Status: No. 4 Mk I (T)
4. Cocking piece: No. 1 Mk VI Pattern with Cross-Screw
5. Barrel date: 1931
6. Steel Batch Number: None listed
7. Other Marks: Standard butt socket markings. No "TR". England on right side of receiver ring. Caliber stamped on right side of barrel tip.
8. Proofs: Standard military proofs; no civilian ones.
9. Location of proof marks: Underside of barrel, bolt handle, bolt head.
10. Staked: Not staked. Pads look original to rifle.
11. "T" stamp: "T" stamp on left sidewall. Perfect match for my other No. 4 Mk I (T)s.
12. Original Tel. No.: Original scope number obliterated. Probably 1849? 3504 stamped underneath it. Looks period.
13. Maker: Original scope not present.
14. Tel.: Presently fitted with 1941-dated Kershaw No. 32 Mk I No. 7180 in a "KD" marked Rose Brothers bracket

I saw in a collection yesterday No32 Scope Bracket Fitting Thumb Screw Wheel with Broad Arrow ! I had never seen this before .... ..Someone know ?

1. S/N A 0862
2. Date 1933
3. Status (No.4 Mk.I (T) but not "T" stamped.
4. Bracket ?
5. Front pad was missing, rear pad not staked.
6. Is not stamped with "T" or "TR".
7. Not entirely legable. Can't tell if what looks to be the first digit is actually a number or a scar "?13523"
8. Standard military proofs; no civilian ones
9. Rifle had been sporterized prior to my purchase with no scope and missing the front scope mount pad. Currently in the process of restoring it.

Hi vintage scope. I'm sorry you've waited a year & a half for a response to your question........I'm afraid I don't look at stickies very often, as a rule! Re the bracket thumb screws, I don't know the significance for sure of those bearing a broad arrow, but suspect that they may be replacements, quite possibly of post-WW2 manufacture. I have a few of them that came in a small batch of original thumb screws from an old gunsmith some years ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Surpmil

This is one of the Model C trials rifles prepared in 1935. Notice the sling swivel loop on the trigger guard, aluminum buttplate and relief cut for the rear sight to the standard No4 depth to allow the use of the backsight plunger, rather than the detent ball found on other trials rifles.

Pity about the Central sight base screw hole through the butt socket.

---

Hi. Not much written about the C Pattern rifles. Was it part of the ‘pattern’ then to have a sling swivel on the trigger guard?

Kind regards.

David

In fact, this might be right place to ask for direction towards any reliable photos of a C Pattern rifles. I have all the usual reference books but unless I can’t see it for looking, I can’t find a picture of a C Pattern No4 Mk1 in any of them. I’ve watched the Forgotten Weapons YouTube video on them, but that’s all.
Can anyone help?
Thanks.

Found these images in my files
Spread over 2 messages

Second Set of Images

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waco16

Second Set of Images

---

Absolutely fabulous. Thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waco16

Second Set of Images

---

It’s mint too. Looks all original. Is that a recess in the wrist of the wood for an SMLE safety catch?

Thanks again for your help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsgu231

Hi. Not much written about the C Pattern rifles. Was it part of the ‘pattern’ then to have a sling swivel on the trigger guard?

Kind regards.

David

---

That is my understanding yes. I believe IDS mentioned that feature in The British Service Lee, and all examples I can recall had at least the lugs on the guard for the swivel.

1. Serial No: A1021 with ‘C’ stamped above it
2. Date: 1931, last digit not separately struck
3. Status: No4 Mk1
8. Trials/inspectors marked components throughout, including the correct magazine.
9. Trials woodwork. Matching (original) numbers to the bolt body (with steel batch number) and action. Barrel also appears to be original with trials inspectors’ marks to the knoxform. Sadly, no aluminium butt plate. Sling swivel bracket mounted on the trigger-guard. Opposing crow’s feet ‘sold out of service’ stamp and ‘Regulated by Fulton’ stamp.

I hope this adds to the record.