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Type: Posts; User: Tom Doniphon; Excluded Forums: Milsurp Knowledge Libraries (READ ONLY)

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  1. Replies
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    Some of the early Model 31 military guns only...

    Some of the early Model 31 military guns only have an ordnance crossed cannons mark stamped on the left side of the stock. Sometimes this mark is not very clear and looks like a dent in the stock. ...
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    According to Meadows in his book, US Military...

    According to Meadows in his book, US Military Automatic Pistols 1920 - 1945, they are replacement slides. However, the requirement to mark them that way was dropped in October 1943, and Ithaca used...
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    36,343

    Winchester used special purpose barrels for the...

    Winchester used special purpose barrels for the Model 12 trench gun. These barrels do not have a taper like the riot barrels do. I have never heard that they used commercial barrels on trench guns...
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    Winchester Polishing Room Serialization Records. ...

    Winchester Polishing Room Serialization Records. They show when the serial number was applied to the receiver. They are the most accurate way to date a Winchester. Most all of the other...
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    739xxx would have had its serial number applied...

    739xxx would have had its serial number applied in October 1920.
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    Here's some photos of Model 1897 butt plates. ...

    Here's some photos of Model 1897 butt plates. They were hand fitted to the stock. So, the chances of finding a loose one that will fit perfectly are not very high.
  7. Replies
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    Actually, on the Model 12, the sporting and riot...

    Actually, on the Model 12, the sporting and riot barrels taper. The Model 12 trench gun barrels do not taper. That is why when the Military converted some Model 12 riot guns to trench guns they...
  8. Replies
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    The photos Jim posted for me are all from...

    The photos Jim posted for me are all from original trench guns. That it how the bayonet adaptors fit on the different guns. On the WWI 1897 trench guns the bayonet adaptor stud is flush with the...
  9. Replies
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    Winchester did rivet the heat shield to the...

    Winchester did rivet the heat shield to the adaptor. They then filed the rivets down. If you look at a WWI 1897 heat shield you can't see the rivets on an original condition gun. On the WWII Model...
  10. Replies
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    All Winchester Model 1897/97 and Model 12 trench...

    All Winchester Model 1897/97 and Model 12 trench guns used the black hard rubber buttplate with Winchester logo. When the rubber buttplates were damaged, the military often replaced them with a...
  11. Replies
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    The swivel on my Model 12 trench gun is exactly...

    The swivel on my Model 12 trench gun is exactly 3-1/2 inches from the end of the buttstock wood to the edge of the swivel base. The muzzle is flush with the end of the bayonet adaptor (there is no...
  12. Replies
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    "The slide sleeve cap apparently had some...

    "The slide sleeve cap apparently had some strange, sloppy work on it and I wonder if anyone can shed some light on what and why-"

    It's damaged. Not sure how or why. I'd buy a replacement. You...
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    I am not aware that the military converted Model...

    I am not aware that the military converted Model 97 (M97) riot guns to trench guns. They did convert Model 12 riot guns to trench guns.
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    If 925551 is the serial number, that would be an...

    If 925551 is the serial number, that would be an early WWII shotgun, not 1946. Winchester stopped making Model 97 trench guns well before the end of WWII.

    You would want to make sure that it...
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    It looks good. But I can't recall an early 97...

    It looks good. But I can't recall an early 97 trench gun that had a barrel with the front bead sight hole filled. That is a characteristic found on many of the very late WWII production 97 trench...
  16. Replies
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    It should be tapered (narrower towards the muzzle...

    It should be tapered (narrower towards the muzzle end). Only the Model 12 trench gun barrels have no taper.
  17. Replies
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    If you use a Winchester USGI bayonet adaptor...

    If you use a Winchester USGI bayonet adaptor rather than an aftermarket one you will most likely have to use shims to have it fit properly because Model 12 riot barrels taper towards the muzzle...
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    The Cutts was added later. The barrels on Model...

    The Cutts was added later. The barrels on Model 12s with factory installed Cutts do not have choke markings.
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    Parkerized W marked bayonet adaptors were...

    Parkerized W marked bayonet adaptors were originally only used on the last few thousand Model 12 trench guns made during WWII that had a factory parkerized finish.

    If the barrel doesn't have the 3...
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    The butt plate looks like the type used by the...

    The butt plate looks like the type used by the military to replace the original Winchester black plastic butt plates when they broke. These replacement butt plates have a widow's peak on top which...
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    The early ones did not have the clean-out hole. ...

    The early ones did not have the clean-out hole. They started adding the clean-out hole on these around the fall of 1917.
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    That shotgun is in the serial number range of the...

    That shotgun is in the serial number range of the WWII riot guns, not trench guns. I believe Kleins converted trench guns to long barreled sporting guns. Not sure if they converted any riot guns. ...
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    Sounds like a barrel installed by someone other...

    Sounds like a barrel installed by someone other than Winchester.

    Can you see the date on the barrel? if you can, does it correspond to the serial number of the gun or is it a later dated barrel?
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    The serifed P in an oval is Winchester's mail...

    The serifed P in an oval is Winchester's mail order barrel mark.

    Is the normal Winchester intertwined W P proof mark also on the barrel?
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    Your Model 12 riot gun actually dates to 1949. I...

    Your Model 12 riot gun actually dates to 1949. I seriously doubt it is a military contract shotgun. If it was I would think it would have U.S. martial markings. And as I recall, most if not all...
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The SMLE 1903-1989