Two “somewhat” difficult to find 1943 dated P.38 soft shell holsters.

[drm2m]

Only a few manufacturers produced the soft shell P.38 holsters in 1943…here are two of them.

This is a “somewhat” more rare date for a P.38 “soft shell” holster, as this model was not officially adopted until 1944.

Most of these 1943 manufactured holsters had upward closure straps….both of these holsters show substantial wear.
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Code “fkx” WaA 869 acceptance marking.
Gustav Sudbrack, Lederwaren-u. Gamaschen-fabrik, Bielefeld, N-W
The P. 38 marking is smaller than is normally seen on P.38 holsters, and in a different font.
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Gebr. Klinge, Dresden
Code ‘gxy’ WaA 706 acceptance marking.

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The pistols;

Walther ac42 (Second variation) and Spreewerk code "cyq" August 1943 manufactured.(First Alphabet run: Second Variation.)

The magazines;

eagle/359 for the ac42----eagle/88 for the Spreewerk.


MP44;

Erma assembled dated 1944, with "gxy" 1943 dated P.38 soft shell holster and M42 helmet.


MP40;

Erma assembled 1943 dated, with ac42 P.38 and 1943 dated "gxy" P.38 holster.



Some other WWII German pieces;


MG42 stuff-dated 1943. (9th & 10th photos.)
(The brown MP40 leather magazine pouch on the right is Yugo post war.)


A couple of Luger rigs Mauser code S/42 1937 and 1938 dated, each with two matching magazines including 1936 and 1937 dated holsters.
(Last five photos.)


David

(Click on icon to enlarge images.)

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Harlan (Deceased)]

AWESOME collection you have, and excellent photo presentations!

I wish more members knew about this new 'German Service Pistol' forum drm2m. Those who haven't opened your post really missed out!

I asked the owner of Milsurps.com to include this new forum but so far it isn't being viewed very much, which is a real pity. Hopefully the word will get out before too long. I still read questions about German pistols posted on the 1911 forum.

~ Harlan

[gunner]

drm2m,
GREAT COLLECTION! Yesterday we had a competition for the old service pistols like the 08, C96, Tokarevs and the fine 1911. It was amazing to see how accurate they are. The competition includet a match for the pistols with wood stocks like the long 08 and the C96 with rapid fire, some of the guys have cut out the bull.

Regards

Gunner

[drm2m]

Thanks cafdfw and gunner...I have added a few more photos above.

David

gunner...from what I understand these LP08s with the stock were pretty accurate weapons.

This pistol was manufactured in 1917 by DWM; it is unit marked and has one matching magazine.
The Type I TM08 (snail drum magazine) was manufactured by A.E.G. with a Bing (B/N) marked and Imperial inspected magazine loader.

The unit marking 122.R.4.6 is for 122nd Fusiliers Regiment (Wurttemberg) 4th Kompagnie (Company), # 6th Waffen (Weapon)

Historic- tradition information on the 122 Füsilier Regiment, from “Ruhmeshalle unsere alten Armee”. Listed are battles and dates as far back as Napoleon. This regiments honor name is “Kaiser Franz Josef von Österreich, König von Ungarn (4. Wurttembergisches) Nr. 122”. Its headquarters/base is Heilbronn (I & III) and Mergentheim(II) and it was founded in 1806.

(Historic info from Jan Still)

Note: The percentage of national contingents in the German Army during World War I is as follows:
Prussia and the smaller states 78 percent
Bavaria 11 percent
Saxony 7 percent
Wurttemberg 4 percent
From “German WWI Identity Tags/Disks”, Peter Meinlschmidt, page 56.
Lugers unit marked to Wurttemberg Regiments are rare.

(Info from Jan still)

[gunner]

drm2m,

for such a good looking LP08 and the complete set, will some of our collectors give their wifes and houses away. Fine 08, good research.

Regards

Gunner

[JBS]

Wonderful collection. How long did it take to get it to this point ?

[drm2m]

Thanks JBS....my father bought me my first French 1844 dated cavalry sword when I was about 13.

That was quite a long time ago....and it has been quite a winding collecting path since then....from U.S. Civil War stuff to WWII German, American and some Russian pieces.

The Artillery Luger shown above and in the photos below is the only WWI piece I own.
--------------------------

gunner,

There is more to the story of this LP08 rig than I will ever know.

When I got the rig it came with a well worn 1915 dated holster (which I have since upgraded.)

The holster looks like a bullet went through it and took a chunk out of the stock....the holster looks like it was crudely repaired.

(Click on the bar to enlarge the images.)












The serial number on the stock iron does not match the serial number on the pistol...
HOWEVER....the same unit markings are present on both the stock iron and the pistol.

Jan Still suggested that the stock was probably a battlefield pick up that was subsequently marked to the unit and pistol.

Serial number on the stock iron 5411h. (The serial number on the pistol is 6237m.)




Unit marking on the stock iron.




Unit marking on the pistol.





Info relating to this regiment during WWI (From Jan C. Still.)





During World War I the 122 Füsilier Regiment was part of the 26th, 105th, and the 243rd Infantry Divisions. The LP08 discussed herein probably went into service with the 122 Füsilier Regiment sometime during August-September-October 1917. It spent the rest of 1917 and 1918 battling as part of the 243 Infantry Division on the Western Front. The issuing Regiment controlled and distributed these Lugers to the troops. The history of these Lugers is the same as that of the Regiment that issued them and the troops that carried them.

World War I battle history of the 243 Infantry Division during 1917 and 1918 on the Western Front. From “Ruhmeshalle unsere alten Armee”. The 122 Füsilier Regiment as part of the 243 Infantry Division battled at Hill 344 (near Verdun), at the Meuse, at Picardy, at the Somme, and at Le Cateau during 1917 and 1918.



An Imperial marked pistol take down tool.






The pistol came with an Erfurt marked magazine.






I found the matching magazine from a previous owner some time later.
It had been separated from the pistol for 24 years.






Acceptance markings on the pistol.





The TM08 and loader came a few years later.






The upgraded holster I purchased came from Australia….but I still have the original 1915
dated worn holster that came with the rig…..
...and it will stay with the rig.

Markings on the upgraded holster;
'Danziger Leder Industrie', dated 1916, B.A.XV11.
B.A.XV11 is for (Clothing Depot of the XV11 Armee Corps, Danzig.)









Some of the German boys back then with Artillery Lugers and TM08 magazines.






A few more period photos showing Artillery Lugers.











General information regarding the use of Artillery Lugers during WWI.
(Jan 27 2005 written by Jan Still on his Forum.)

A directive dated August 11, 1917 ordered each infantry company on the
Western Front to be armed with 10 Long P08's for attack purposes
(Gortz, 1994). A similar directive ordered the arming of the Sturm
battilone with Long P08's with 6 extra magazines each (Schad, 1993).
This special arming for assault troops would require most of the 1917
Long P08 production (Imperial Lugers, page xxv).

Of 870 reported unit marked Imperial Lugers 102 are LP08's and 78 of
these are dated 1917. Of these 78, 52 are marked to infantry
regiments, 6 to infantry regiment machine gun companies, 11 to
infantry regiments, 8 to minenwerfer companies and 6 to various other units.

Based on unit markings, LP08's were predominately issued to artillery units and infantry regiment machine gun companies during 1914. During 1915-1918 they were predominately issued to infantry regiment, infantry regiment machine gun companies and minenwerfer units.

1917 LP08 DWM: predominantly infantry regiment (85 percent) Lugers were marked and issued. Some infantry regiment machine gun and minenwerfer Lugers were also marked and issued.
The number of LP08's marked to infantry regiments during 1917, 64, is very large when compared to infantry regiment marked P08's . This very large number of infantry regiment marked LP08's is related to the issue of LP08's to assault troops on the Western Front during 1917.


David

[Donald Pattie]

I just inherited a Walther p38 9 mm 480ac sn 8494 with holster and extra magazine that was issued to Generalmajor Adrian Freihen van der Hoop and surrendered to an officer of the Devils Brigade in Narvik, Norway. Anyone have any idea of the value? The owners name and number is inside the holster and the extra magazine also has the sn of the pistol.