UK Proofing Question

[Chubbs]

Hi Guys
Is there any legitamate reason why a Lee Enfield No4 MK1* would be sold in the UK without a proofing mark on the bolt. The bolt I have is from the Italian navy and has no proof mark on it.

Regards Chubbs

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Simon P]

Proof marks can be in any place on the bolt, and are often feint & difficult to spot. Quite often with Italian proofs the bolt is missed.

German proofs can be very discrete or hideously large.

[Chubbs]

Hi Simon

So if the Italians don't proof mark their bolts how are they then sold in the uk without a mark?

Regards Chubbs

[mrclark303]

Providing the rifle is marked and its recorded as going through proof I wouldn't sweat it

Does it have a very faint proof marking at the base of the handle at the top, or underneath the handle on the flat.

[Surpmil]

Does the bolt match? Apparently when these rifles were sold off by the Italian authorities the bolts were dumped in a bin together and the rifles came separately, requiring a protracted process of sorting them out and matching them to their original rifles where possible. The Italian dealer had photos of this process on their website for a long time, and maybe still does?

Would Italian law require military weapons provided by NATO to be reproofed before service or before resale? Obviously they were proofed when manufactured originally.

Perhaps the bolt in your rifle is not the original?

Giove can perhaps tell us more?

[Chubbs]

Hi Guys


Mrclark 303 No proof mark anywhere and have been told it has not been through a uk proofing house.

Surpmil Bolt not original and has been matched to rifle with the receiver being renumbered. Even if the serial no's where matching it should still have a proof mark for the uk civilian market.

Anyone else in the UK not have a proofing mark on their Lee Enfield bolts ?

Regards Chubbs

[mrclark303]

The mark on my Austrian proofed No5 is tiny and very indistinct right at the top of the bolt handle. I had to stare at with a magnifying glass before I worked out what it was!

[Patrick Chadwick]

I seem to remember that we had another case like this recently, and if my brain cells have recorded it correctly, a replacement bolt must be renumbered to match the receiver, which Peter Laidler has told us often enough is the "master" component. Renumbering a receiver to match a bolt smacks of illegitimate Bubbary.

Changing the number on the receiver makes it a different rifle for proof and licensing purposes, i.e. a new proof becomes mandatory.

So receiver number altered + no proof mark = very, very dodgy.

[Giove]

Italy (as well as the United Kingdom, Belgium, France, Spain, Germany, Austria, etc.) applies the decisions of the C.I.P. (Standind Commission on the Proof of Portable Firearms - Commission Internationale Permanente), based in Rue Fond des Tawes, 45 - Liege (Belgium).

After passing the proof test, on the rifles (rifled barrel) the marks are punched on the barrel and on the action or on the bolt.

In Italy the "Bench of National Proof (B.N.P.) punched the rifles on the Barrel and on the Action (receiver).

Light weapons proof tested and punched in a State member of the CIP convention can be sold to any other member State.

[Chubbs]

Italy (as well as the United Kingdom, Belgium, France, Spain, Germany, Austria, etc.) applies the decisions of the C.I.P. (Standind Commission on the Proof of Portable Firearms - Commission Internationale Permanente), based in Rue Fond des Tawes, 45 - Liege (Belgium).

After passing the proof test, on the rifles (rifled barrel) the marks are punched on the barrel and on the action or on the bolt.

In Italy the "Bench of National Proof (B.N.P.) punched the rifles on the Barrel and on the Action (receiver).

Light weapons proof tested and punched in a State member of the CIP convention can be sold to any other member State.

Hi Glove

Thank you for your information. I have as you say the marks on the receiver and barrel but not on the bolt. I have contacted the Birmingham proof house and they say that there should be one on the bolt. Which is now confusing as I am sure you are right and we must have a reciprocal agreement with Italian guns. (Didn't have your info when I phoned them.)
The only question which puzzles me is why there are different standards within a international agreement with the uk seemingly inssisting on having an extra mark.

Regards Chubbs