IP production problems

[FTD1167]

Over the last 6 months I have read posts in these forums that IP did not have any problems with the carbines that they made, and or everyone else had the same production problems.
Has some new information been released or has War Baby's chapters on the subject all wrong.
Shed some light on this for me. These are a few bits of facts from the books and there are plenty more that explain
IP was a total failure in all aspects.
Saginaw fired the entire plant and made them reapply.
"No discipline in shop. Operators are permitted to smoke,eat,drink and loaf on the job.In fact it looks like management encouraged them." William Doerfner quote.
I have read the chapters 3 times and each time it gets worse for IP.
I could go on and on with examples from the book. Best pages I have with the most punch is p167-168.
Which he leads in to how "Old gun-makers" made parts and then hand fitted parts, and the Cost-plus-fee plan.
Heat treatment was a big issue that led to the first ever receiver breakages at Aberdeen with a carbine in March '43. That issue was fixed by Saginaw then more problems arose.The next test in April was a failure also. The next test in May was a failure too, but Saginaw talked them into a passing grade 44 days after the takeover.

[Bruce McAskill]

While the IP receivers failed at testing by the military they were not the first ones to fail as just about all of the makers had receivers that failed during in house testing. Doerfner was in a big hurry to get the S'G' (IP) carbines qualified as he had a second plant (S.G.) to also start production and the military was pushing him to get the carbines out. If he had tested in house first the receivers very well may have passed with the military when they tested them but at a later time then they did. The problem with the management at IP was one of stopping all production when an update was sent to the company for one of the componants in the carbine like the update from a type 1 bolt to a type 2 or a type 1 trigger housing to a type 2. Production would not start again till the part was updated. The other makers just kept making carbines using the old part till the new parts came on line. Far too much time to make a carbine as the military wanted then yesterday so after over a year of wasting time in the eyes of the military the switch was made. Nothing new has come to light and WB is still the same.

[DaveHH]

in an efficient business like manner. Rockola had similar problems. IP had problems with heat treating firing pins as well, an easily corrected problem. IP managers were far too busy being managers to get down on the floor and run things efficiently. When you read about how Quality Hardware went about their program, you can appreciate what genuine management was. IP people were amateurs at best. Doerfner was a professional at his trade.

[Mikey51]

Dave, where is the reading matter found concerning the IP firing pin problem ?. I'd be interested to learn more about that. Thanks. Mike.

[usgicollector]

Mike,

I remember it being in Doerfner's notes in both WAR BABY! and in the articles about him in the Carbine Club Newsletters.
He talks about how the system the used would never get consistant results.

[DaveHH]

Notes from Doerfner. Says a lot about attention to detail paying off.

[Mikey51]

Good stuff, thanks ! So, would a bomb on an I.P. pin have anything to do with that problem, or would it be there for another reason ? I've been trying to sort this one out for a long time and havn't quite resolved it. My pics. Thanks. Mike.

[topaz]

dbarn should be reading this, Reading some past treads on another forum this might be something for him.